The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[Ms Biddy]

Hi again, @nicalandia How you must love these genetic soup questions. /s

I've been trying to understand the dark face trait that is sometimes referred to as "Gypsy face." My understanding is that it only appears on crow wing bases in the presence of id+. Please correct me if I'm wrong or illuminate if you can. Can it appear in any chicken with E or ER and id+? Is it one gene, a polygenic trait, or just something that "likes" to appear in very dark birds?

I have this dark face trait in my flock. They are Ayam Ketawa, which do not have a color standard, so they can be quite mixed up. I believe this boy is ER x eb, with DB. He was a sable brown colored chick. I have a weakness for combining ER x eb. I really like crow wing but I also really like patterned and laced feathers

Besides wanting to understand how dark faces appear, I want to know if the mo gene can be added to a dark faced, dark shanked, crow wing type bird. He is probably not the best example to show since he's feathering in red, but he's still pretty dark and if I were to add mo to something like this, I've read it doesn't play nicely with id+, and maybe I would end up with spotted shanks. I'mnot sure if I've seen examples of mottled crow wing birds.

Thank you for any insight

 

[NatJ]

So sorry if I sound dumb. But does dark shanks mean he has the fibro gene but it doesn’t show bc it’s recessive?

No, not quite.

There are two genes involved in black skin.

Fibro is one gene. Your hen has it, your rooster does not. That is what makes the skin actually black (like what your hen is showing.)

But there is another gene that can block it. That other gene also causes light shanks. It's called Id (stands for Inhibitor of Dermal Melanin). A chicken with Id cannot show fibro, even when it has the fibro gene. I had thought your rooster was showing light shanks (Id), while nicalandia thought your rooster had dark shanks (no Id). If he is right, and your rooster does not have Id, then you should get plenty of black-skinned chicks.

 

[3KillerBs]

I've been trying to understand the dark face trait that is sometimes referred to as "Gypsy face." My understanding is that it only appears on crow wing bases in the presence of id+. Please correct me if I'm wrong or illuminate if you can. Can it appear in any chicken with E or ER and id+? Is it one gene, a polygenic trait, or just something that "likes" to appear in very dark birds?

@nicalandia

I am also interested in the genetics of "Gypsy Face".

I see it a good deal in my deepest Blue girls -- to the point that one or two people said that they couldn't actually be Australorps at all.

I don't dislike it and am not breeding show birds so I can indulge myself, but I would like to know more about how it works.

 

[NanaK]

@nicalandia

I am also interested in the genetics of "Gypsy Face".

I see it a good deal in my deepest Blue girls -- to the point that one or two people said that they couldn't actually be Australorps at all.

I don't dislike it and am not breeding show birds so I can indulge myself, but I would like to know more about how it works.

I have seen this pop up in Marans too. I always wondered why 1 chick would show it out of a group with the same parents. Parents did not show it.

 

[Speedyfth]

No, not quite.

There are two genes involved in black skin.

Fibro is one gene. Your hen has it, your rooster does not. That is what makes the skin actually black (like what your hen is showing.)

But there is another gene that can block it. That other gene also causes light shanks. It's called Id (stands for Inhibitor of Dermal Melanin). A chicken with Id cannot show fibro, even when it has the fibro gene. I had thought your rooster was showing light shanks (Id), while nicalandia thought your rooster had dark shanks (no Id). If he is right, and your rooster does not have Id, then you should get plenty of black-skinned chicks.

If I get some good pictures of the shanks could you tell by that?

 

[NatJ]

If I get some good pictures of the shanks could you tell by that?

Nicalandia is probably right. He usually is.

But yes, clear pictures of the shanks can help everyone be more sure one way or the other.

 

[nicalandia]

Hi again, @nicalandia How you must love these genetic soup questions. /s

I've been trying to understand the dark face trait that is sometimes referred to as "Gypsy face." My understanding is that it only appears on crow wing bases in the presence of id+. Please correct me if I'm wrong or illuminate if you can. Can it appear in any chicken with E or ER and id+? Is it one gene, a polygenic trait, or just something that "likes" to appear in very dark birds?

Dark face will appear on ER and Extended Black with id+, but its a separate mutation not related to those genes

 

[Speedyfth]

Nicalandia is probably right. He usually is.

But yes, clear pictures of the shanks can help everyone be more sure one way or the other.

Here is another picture of his shanks

 

[MysteryChicken]

Here is another picture of his shanks

White with speckles like our boy blue. I've asked about it, but don't think I've been given a good answer on cause.

 

[NatJ]

Here is another picture of his shanks

@nicalandia are these dark shanks? (id+/id+)

They're closer views of the same rooster I thought was light, but you thought was dark. I definitely see light areas and darker areas, so I'm not sure how to interpret that.