the Blackest Ones: on exploring the significance of Cemani mutations

[maranfarmer563]

Chicken girl, I have Toni's cemani and her Fb Phoenix,beautiful birds

 

[smoothmule]

Just following along, there are some nice pictures here but I'd love to see some conversation regarding the genetics and breeding the Cemani and other FM breeds. I have some Araucana's with gypsy faces, most have been hens in the past but I have a cockerel hatched this summer that has pretty good black, for a male.

Do you find that males, especially at breeding age or older, have a tendency to lighten a little? And do hens have deeper black color?
I understand there should be 4 FM genes for an individual to be the blackest it can be. Has anyone developed a way to determine which of the FM genes are present? (location on body? etc) and how to identify individuals that are likely to have the genes missing in a breeding flock? For example, is the gypsy face one of those FM genes? I see there are breeds that have black bone but more grey meat/skin so is that one of the differences in having all 4 genes? And what about the legs, feet, toenails? Is that a different gene? Seems there are certain spots on the ones that are not totally black.

So, can it be expected that if you had one that had some red in the face/wattles, but nice black toenails, that breeding to a mate with white toenails but deep black face/comb etc would correct the holes in the black? Even breeds with a long history of cookie cutter type and colors can produce the occasional cull......so how is everyone planning breedings? To me, it's a shame to waste any of them if there is a part of a bird that can be improved on with the proper mate. I have 3 Cemani chicks from Toni-Marie and I want to have a plan by the time they are ready to breed.

That brings me to outcrossing, I know some breeders are bringing FM genes into other breeds. Sounds interesting, the Cemani doesn't appear to be a particularly large breed so a meat type cross might be good if there is a fair market for the black meat.

Here is an Araucana cockerel that I hatched this summer, he is gypsy faced with a nice black face and comb, some red in the wattles. Even the ear lobes are black. His skin is yellow, as Araucana's should be, and the leg color black, as per the SOP, but the soles of his feet are also black with some yellow showing in some area's. The toe nails are not black but the base of the nails is darker. Just interested in how all the genes work and I have some gypsy faced Araucana hens that I plan to cross him with to see if that will result in more black? or even what percentage of chicks will be gypsy faced.

 

[lauraschicks]

...There is no better taproot for this constitution than large boned healthy Black Java hens. You'll never use a Black Java rooster so don't bother purchasing one.

The next gene stock that will prove absolutely pivotal for that Black Java lineage is the absolutely best quality miniature Sumatran rooster you can find. He should be tiny and black or better yet dark blue.

The Dark Blue Sumatran Bantam rooster is bred to the Black Java hen. F1 daughters are all keepers.  That F1 lineage " New-Sunda" is what everyone ready to collaborate and cooperate should be ready to trade and move amongst one another. The very best rooster- and that's totally subjective- he may be dark skinned or just have the best conformation- or the best comb or better yet the best temperament- whatever your choice is- regardless of how close he is to "cemani" is held back. That F1 "New-Sunda" rooster is bred back to his mother.  All other roosters go into the freezer. Do not breed from them.
F2 Daughters of this backcross are also keepers but only breed from the darkest hens. Don't worry about their conformation just their pigmentation.

Ok so you're wondering what the male lineage will be used other than the F1  "uncle brother" rooster - -back to him in a moment-
The F1 "New-Sunda" females are to produce another lineage of F2  from which roosters will be bred to those darkest F2 hens produced through backcrossing.

When everyone is clear on that convoluted mess I'll continue.

So- there's your foundation- the mother stock.

I havebeen reading over the entire thread and have some questions on the beginning parts where you go over the genetics of developing Cemani morphs using Black Javas and Sumatras.you talk about using a blue Sumatra rather than a black one.how does the blue deletion gene work with the Cemani morph?
Additionally why use the TINY Sumatran rooster rather than a large fowl?

 

[smoothmule]

I havebeen reading over the entire thread and have some questions on the beginning parts where you go over the genetics of developing Cemani morphs using Black Javas and Sumatras.you talk about using a blue Sumatra rather than a black one.how does the blue deletion gene work with the Cemani morph?
Additionally why use the TINY Sumatran rooster rather than a large fowl?

Following this too, thanks for asking the questions.
Anyone interested in grouping together to make some of these mother stock?

 

[Chickengirl1304]

15 mins left if anyone is interested in Hmong

https://m.facebook.com/groups/38573...8795740937&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity

 

[Lee Ann Lynn]

Silkies are fibromelanistic. They have completely black everything except feather but true in the black ones. They also have completely black tongues all the time.

 

[Lee Ann Lynn]

Blue is just a diluted black.

 

[bluenkimchi]

I don't think they have black tongues, but just grey, to dark grey. People consider black tongues to what a really good Cemani has. .

 

[Double Kindness]

Hi everyone! I hope someone needs a non perfect ac roo that has had a crow reduction surgery

My boys are from mike bean's non Smithsonian line and were hatched mid August. They get handled daily and are extremely sweet tempered and love to be petted and cuddled. The vet byc member dretd said their larynx was charcoal and their hearts were black / mullberry. Their feathers are growing back well, and they take very good care of their ladies. Extremely sweet tempered, easy to handle. I have 5 more younger ac roosters too. These boys though have had the crow reduction surgery, which I know many are interested in.

I tried to post in the for sale section, but I can't seem to be able to? I have a haffie roo also that's slated for caponizing tomorrow if I can't rehome him

More ac are hatching soon too, after seeing my ac kerstiens decided to hatch more, mine come directly from her. Huhess, Maranfarmer563 have ac from the parents of my babies, they are siblings.

 

[maranfarmer563]

Does anyone have Pelung chickens