the Blackest Ones: on exploring the significance of Cemani mutations

[smoothmule]

I have also noted that my Tomaru, although Not fibro, put a Lot of dark gypsy face on their crosses. I have crossed Araucana to the Tomaru and gotten extremely black birds, even black on the soles of the feet, black eyes, gypsy faced. They share some common ancestry so I am trying a cross between the breeds and recently put a Tomaru hen in with the floppy combed Cemani rooster.

This is a Tomaru/Araucana cross cockerel. Not fibro but some amazing blackness considering no Cemani used. This cockerel is also showing a lot of purple sheen (Violaceous) which may be coming through from the ancestors common to the Cemani too.

 

[smoothmule]

More Cemani/Araucana chicks showing the darkness of skin showing through at the keel and legs. I think it's significant that the Araucana is so good at showing fibro


Showing the dark skin

 

[bluenkimchi]

X

 

[artblueggwanter]

Is Anyone familiar with the American Gamefowl "****** Roundheads" and would they be a good start in crossing for "The blackest ones"? If so, what might I cross them with?

would you not be better off getting the blackwarhorse gamefowl or black sid taylor gamefowl?

 

[smoothmule]

It's the white skin and dark legs in the non fibro araucana, that is helping the fibro cross chicks to express so well. Try that same cemani cross with a yellow leg and skin non fibro and your outcome won't be as expressive in the majority of chicks.

They are very nice looking though

Well, My Araucana's Do have yellow skin. The standard for Araucana's is yellow skin. Look at that picture where there is a small amount of yellow showing on the toe tip.....that is yellow.

 

[bluenkimchi]

Well, My Araucana's Do have yellow skin.   The standard for Araucana's is yellow skin.  Look at that picture where there is a small amount of yellow showing on the toe tip.....that is yellow.

yes, you're right, they are yellow skin...i mistaken them with ameraucana lol.....but their dark legs helped carry the fibro over better too ....again if it was a yellow leg along with skin...will express less as these ones you showen.....from my experience...with a yellow skin and leg x fibro...they usually are some type of greenish feet to blue-grey feet and various degree of fibro skin...

 

[smoothmule]

This young pullet was another of my first crossings to my Araucana hens, yellow skinned. This pullet's sire is a "cull" Cemani. Pale grey skin, white mouth, several white toenails, white ear lobes, mulberry wattles, silver neck and saddle hackles......the mother of this chick is a silver duckwing Araucana. Yellow skinned, bright red face, wattles/ear lobes/comb. Not gypsy faced...nothing to suggest black.

The chick's skin is darker than the Cemani sire's. Even some black in the mouth and the tip of the tongue is black.

I believe that it is possible, that there are genes that can enhance fibro as well as inhibit fibro. I have to wonder if the poor quality Cemani rooster has something that inhibits the expression of the black? And the hen did not have that, or she had something to enhance it? I haven't figured it out yet. The roo is directly from Toni Marie. I know that some breeders have crossed TM lines to GFF and gotten better chicks. There has to be a reason.......

I have been watching on FB at the crosses people are making and wondering if there are certain breeds that express more?
edited to add that this pullet and the above chicks I posted are all from the same pairing.

 

[smoothmule]

I am no stranger to playing with genetics. I learn by doing and I'm breeding the best Cemani I can produce but I am Not afraid of building with what I have. I do work to add better birds to the flock but I feel it's essential to use good husbandry and to put birds together with the idea to see chicks from that cross that are better than either parent. I know breeding best to best has no guarantees and limiting the gene pool is not the answer, in my opinion.

I went through this with my Araucana's 8 yrs ago. There were very few breeders and most of them did not work wel together. Most had closed flocks but they were closed with hardly enough genes in the pool to carry them for long. I took anything I could get my hands on....the worst of the worst. I had no past experience with genetics or breeding poultry. SO, I learned. I crossed everything, nothing I had was a real color....just mixed genes. I developed a plan the second year when I was able to figure out from breeding, what I was dealing with. I turned a bunch of culls into a flock of show quality blacks and now I'm working on a chocolate (recessive/sex linked chocolate.....not the dun chocolate) line and this is my 4th year with that project pen.

This is my first double tufted/rumpless chocolate Araucana chick with the "correct" yellow skin. All the parent stock in the project pen already lay blue eggs so that is done too. Now all I need to do is hatch a full flock of these chocolates and they will breed true. I may try this color with fibro at some point but what I Don't do is just haphazardly breed to see what happens. I'll have both my Cemani and my chocolate Araucana's in ship shape before making them.

 

[smoothmule]

This is a cockerel I recently bought. I see a lot of breeders commenting that individuals like him should not be bred. That he would be a cull. He's certainly not perfect...but definitely has traits I would not want to lose either. (IMO)

His comb is nice, so black, black mouth, skin, all nails....the feather color is separate from the fibro.... birchen (he is birchen marked with the silver in his hackles) is the base color of Cemani but birchen has color in the hackles.....so Cemani are actually melanized birchen. The only thing this cockerel lacks are melanizers.....an easy easy fix.

 

[bluenkimchi]

You are doing a great job on both your araucana and cemani.....these so called "culls" by most folks might not be like the standards of the breed, but they carry the same traits as the "perfect" looking ones.......so selective breeding can result in bringing out those called for traits....black is pretty, but boring and dull at the same time lol....a color fibro is a lot more eye catching in my opinion .......i would take your "cull" guy...how much you want for him?