The Calico/Aloha/Mottled Naked Neck Thread

[draye]

@Kev

LEG COLOR:

Trying to get the understanding on leg color. Seen the post on the Aloha Chicken Thread.

Okay most of my flock have slate legs. Inherited from the Salmon rooster. So will this be hard to get rid of? Breed out.

The one rooster that has them is being breed to the Mottled Partridge NN, she has yellow/black legs. Hers look much like a Barred Rocks legs mottled looking, but underneath are yellow. So far it looks like those hatched off are Cockerel: look like moms, not sure if underneath are yellow or white ( I think white). Pullets (3) have the skate legs.

Now the Cinnamon/Columbian rooster has slate legs. I have three red cockerels from him out of a Red NN (Aloha Stock, no spots) and yellow legs. These cockerels have yellow legs.

So I guess what I'm getting down to is " Are the legs going to be able to be bred in easily?".

Also in reference to the slate legs and the pea comb.
Are the yellow legs manageable to be bred into those that have the pea combs? Much of the flock descended from the EE's have slate/green kegs.

 

[Kev]

Slate being hard to breed out? Yes and no.. slate is due to white body skin plus pigment in a layer of skin on the legs giving a visual slate color.

White skin is dominant.. it is 100% dominant so you cannot visually tell which ones carry the recessive yellow skin. That is the hard part, figuring out which ones are pure white skin or not.

The easy part- once you have yellow or green legs, that means white skin is gone(like non-NN out of NN parents). So once you have yellow/green legs you don't have to worry about white skin anymore.

For yellow legs you absolutely have to have the Id gene. It represses the layer of pigments in the legs. Id is a sex linked dominant so if there are only slate or green legs, it has to be crossed in by a new bird.

Your mottled hen has yellow skin but lacks Id. Her mottled legs is due to the mottle also "mottling up" the legs. Her legs not being a clean yellow means she does not have the Id gene.. All of her chicks will be yellow skin carriers- the one cockerel and three pullets from her are yellow skin carriers.

to check for skin color, check soles, also under arm pit etc but laying hens can lose the yellow tint on skin fast because it is the same pigment used in yolk... however their soles should be yellow.

White soles means white skin.

Your yellow leg cockerels out of the cinnamon roo have yellow skin plus Id so those are valuable if you want yellow legs and most of your birds are slate legged. However because their father had slate legs, it means they are not pure for Id.

Those yellow leg cockerels bred to a slate leg hen will give white legs, slate legs, maybe yellow and green legs if the hen carries yellow skin. (if the hen threw yellow or green legs before, she is a carrier and will throw all four leg colors/ If she is pure for white skin, she will throw only white or slate legs)

Yellow leg cockerel bred to partridge hen- half yellow half green legs.

There is no barrier to breeding a yellow legged pea comb bird. The only tricky part is the more genes you want in a single bird, the harder it is. For this reason, any pea combed green leg are more desirable than a pea comb white/slate leg to keep for breeding.

Especially valuable are yellow leg pea comb rooster, he will make your whole flock turn yellow legged very fast.


summary of above:

White skin is completely dominant over yellow skin. It is not sex linked.

Id is sex linked dominant. Id clears the legs of a pigment in a specific layer of skin on legs only.

Slate legs is white skin plus no Id.

Green legs is yellow skin plus no Id.

White legs is white skin plus Id

Yellow legs is yellow skin plus Id.

If the goal is yellow legs and do not want white or slate legs, give big preference to all chicks showing green or yellow legs.

However, Id being dominant, keep some white legs for this reason if there are no yellow leg chicks. Especially if they are known to be yellow skin carriers due to one parent being yellow skinned.

For sex linked mating..

Green/slate roo bred with yellow/white leg hen will give you yellow/white leg cockerels and green/slate leg pullets.

Yellow/white leg roo bred with green/slate leg hens will give yellow/white legs in both sexes.

 

[draye]

Slate being hard to breed out? Yes and no..    slate is due to white body skin plus pigment in a layer of skin on the legs giving a visual slate color.

White skin is dominant.. it is 100% dominant so you cannot visually tell which ones carry the recessive yellow skin.  That is the hard part, figuring out which ones are pure white skin or not. 

The easy part- once you have yellow or green legs, that means white skin is gone(like non-NN out of NN parents).  So once you have yellow/green legs you don't have to worry about white skin anymore.

For yellow legs you absolutely have to have the Id gene.  It represses the layer of pigments in the legs.  Id is a sex linked dominant so if there are only slate or green legs,  it has to be crossed in by a new bird.

Your mottled hen has yellow skin but lacks Id. Her mottled legs is due to the mottle also "mottling up" the legs.  Her legs not being a clean yellow means she does not have the Id gene..  All of her chicks will be yellow skin carriers- the one cockerel and three pullets from her are yellow skin carriers.

to check for skin color, check soles, also under arm pit etc but laying  hens can lose the yellow tint on skin fast because it is the same pigment used in yolk... however their soles should be yellow. 

White soles means white skin.

Your yellow leg cockerels out of the cinnamon roo have yellow skin plus Id so those are valuable if you want yellow legs and most of your birds are slate legged.   However because their father had slate legs,  it means they are not pure for Id.

Those yellow leg cockerels bred to a slate leg hen will give white legs, slate legs, maybe yellow and green legs if the hen carries yellow skin. (if the hen threw yellow or green legs before, she is a carrier and will throw all four leg colors/ If she is pure for white skin, she will throw only white or slate legs)

Yellow leg cockerel bred to partridge hen- half yellow half green legs.

There is no barrier to breeding a yellow legged pea comb bird.  The only tricky part is the more genes you want in a single bird, the harder it is.   For this reason,  any pea combed green leg are more desirable than a pea comb white/slate leg to keep for breeding.

Especially valuable are yellow leg pea comb rooster, he will make your whole flock turn yellow legged very fast.


summary of above:

White skin is completely dominant over yellow skin. It is not sex linked.

Id is sex linked dominant. Id clears the legs of a pigment in a specific layer of skin on legs only.

Slate legs is white skin plus no Id.

Green legs is yellow skin plus no Id.

White legs is white skin plus Id

Yellow legs is yellow skin plus Id.

If the goal is yellow legs and do not want white or slate legs, give big preference to all chicks showing green or yellow legs.

However, Id being dominant, keep some white legs for this reason if there are no yellow leg chicks. Especially if they are known to be yellow skin carriers due to one parent being yellow skinned.

For sex linked mating..

Green/slate roo bred with yellow/white leg hen will give you yellow/white leg cockerels and green/slate leg pullets.

Yellow/white leg roo bred with green/slate leg hens will give yellow/white legs in both sexes.

Whew! I'm gonna have to read that again. A lot if information here.

Thanks so much. I'll get it down.

 

[Kev]

Any questions, please ask.. I worry about not explaining too clearly or simply enough.

The problem is leg color is due to two different genes- body skin(white vs yellow) and the gene Id(Inhibitor of Dermal melanin).

Other genes also affect leg color but as a side effect like mottle which also mottles the legs, barring, black(feather color) also puts black pigment over the legs etc.

Not so easy to explain really clearly like single genes such as naked neck.. just one gene, easy!

 

[draye]

Any questions, please ask.. I worry about not explaining too clearly or simply enough.

The problem is leg color is due to two different genes- body skin(white vs yellow) and the gene Id(Inhibitor of Dermal melanin).

Other genes also affect leg color but as a side effect like mottle which also mottles the legs, barring, black(feather color) also puts black pigment over the legs etc.

Not so easy to explain really clearly like single genes such as naked neck.. just one gene, easy!

I think you've explained it pretty good. I feel it clear, it's just my small pea brain ( not comb here). I've got to wrap my mind around it.

I'll be sure to ask questions when I need to. Right now I'm just trying to get my mottled/calico numbers up before I really try starting to work on the legs. I mostly just want a place to start looking for what I need to look for.

I think I want to work for the yellow legs to stay in line with Sommers goals for the Alohas.

I really like the pea comb personally but I think if someone ever gets the desire for another APA color I really need to go with the single comb and a brown egg. But maybe a few green egg layers for myself.

 

[Kev]

Glad my writings are legible, ha.

That is a problem with projects.. what routes to take....

I would say to go with what makes you happy- that will keep your interest in them. I have some birds that would not ever sell well(I think) but I keep them anyways because they make *me* happy.

Perhaps combine two things in one line.. a single comb mixed with pea if you want pea combed Alohas? If the pea is linked with colored eggs, it would be easy for you to figure out the colored eggers from day one, that would make it easy to sell them separately if there is demand for that. That won't work so neatly if there are pea combed birds that don;t lay colored eggs though.

As for leg color, if you haven;t fully decided on it, how about keeping a full variety of leg colors(especially some of the yellow or white leggers) if possible if you think in the future you might stick with one... or like them all. That way you can avoid having to bring in a new bird to fix this issue and possibly have to start all over again on the type and color.

 

[draye]

Tuesday I will be selling off most of the 7 week and 4 week old chicks.

Trying to make room for the ones that I set yesterday. I've got a bunch set so I'll make my selections for keepers from them.

 

[draye]

Get ready in about 2 1/2 weeks for new Mottled/Calico/Aloha Naked Necks.

I have set:
Spangled Aloha rooster: 38 eggs from 5 hens.
Red Mottled NN rooster: 14 eggs from 2 hens.

Total eggs from this project: 52.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Get ready in about 2 1/2 weeks for new Mottled/Calico/Aloha Naked Necks.

I have set:
Spangled Aloha rooster: 38 eggs from 5 hens.
Red Mottled NN rooster: 14 eggs from 2 hens.

Total eggs from this project: 52.

Yay! Babies!!!!!!

 

[alohachickens]

I took pics of my growout chicks. Getting ready to cull a good number. Not a lot of the Turkens will make the cut, but a few of them will. There are 2 boys with lots of white and yellow legs. Looks like I got way more roos than hens in my batch. Many hens look too dark and too plain. Feeling like I will end up with only 4 or so hens to grow out. Plus a couple roos.