The Dorking Breeders thread

[RhodeRunner]

Line breeding with careful selection IS bringing the Am Chin back-  If I'm not mistaking, someone on here, YHF, I think,  posted about creating "families" of the breed and then crossing the offspring of those families (which actually extends genetic diversity a bit), keeping a critical eye on your type etc.... This is almost the same breeding program we were taught to use with the Am Chin which is still on the critical list at this time BUT is slowly increasing in numbers.... with the correct type-

What is an Am Chin?

 

[AFChick]

Ekkk lol American Chinchilla rabbit ... Sorry about that- sometimes I automatically think everyone knows all abbreviations for all livestock

 

[RhodeRunner]

Ekkk lol  American Chinchilla rabbit  ... Sorry about that-  sometimes  I automatically think everyone knows all abbreviations for all livestock

Hehehehehe

 

[DesertChic]

As someone that enjoys studying genetics, I'm not sure if a tiny gene pool exists

But, I understand what you are saying, especially if your are tinkering with colors! We do have an issue on our hands if we lack healthy genetics and inbreed to tightly. I've seen this in several breeds (Largefowl Orloffs and Crevecours) and ended up ditching both breeds because they where to unhealthy for me to continue.

However, I do not blame the Orloffs or Crevecours issue on lack of genetic diversity. I blame it on the selection or lack thereof, of the wrong genetics. There is nothing wrong with a "small gene pool" provided the line has good health. This gives a greater ability to control what one is working towards, and the best lines of poulty out the are inbred.

If you haven't read this, it is a rather interesting http://www.dominiquechicken.com/Inbreeding_Considerations.html

And the real "trick" is to not be plagued by "hidden genes" once you select your breeders. Genetics is complicated, and there are a number of genetic attributes that can be concealed in the parent stock, but suddenly pop up in the offspring. I saw this happen with some NN Turken eggs I purchased, 2/3 of which hatched with feathered shanks and one of which was also born fully feathered. When I contacted the breeder I'd purchased from they turned out to be quite distressed and surprised by the appearance of this particular gene, which also appeared in the birds they had hatched to continue their breeding program. They had just infused new blood into their line but had no idea that their new sire and several of their hens both heterozygous for the NN gene and also carried a variation of the feathered shank gene.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote: Oh, I'm so glad you asked. I thought someone had created an American version of the Japanese Chin dog!!

 

[Sydney Acres]

Short of an epidemic or some other disaster, a breed of livestock doesn't become rare because breeders properly cull the offspring. That process actually strengthens the breed (emphasis on properly culls, not randomly culls). A breed becomes rare because too few people are interested in that particular breed. And a breed becomes unpopular when the quality of the birds that exist are so poor that they can no longer be used for their farming purpose, which for Dorkings is superior meat. If you want to save this breed, don't keep the ones that are inferior. Use them for meat, and save the resources (infrastructure, caretaking time, feed budget, etc) to propagate the superior birds. Once you have birds worthy of their heritage, show their worth to other people who might be interested. That is how you save a breed -- create a unique feature and superior quality so lots of people want them. Breeding inferior stock only creates lots of inferior birds that people lose interest in quickly, which is the death blow to a rare breed.

Obviously, this would not apply to a breed where there's only 5 males and 10 females in existence. But luckily we're not that bad off. Even though they are somewhat rare, there are enough Dorkings around that we can move from desperate to selective without worrying about extinction.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Another good reason to use caution when bringing in birds from another line. Many breeders never bring in new blood, but very carefully line breed to prevent the effects of inbreeding

 

[ki4got]

I eat my retired breeders, no matter what the breed, but I don't see the purpose of slaughtering rare breeds in their youth. It's rather difficult to increase their numbers and maintain genetic diversity if the majority are slaughtered before they reproduce. Having worked with Jubilee Orpingtons, I see the terrible results of creating a tiny gene pool.

I'm not interested in just pretty birds, and have zero interest in showing. I do try to breed toward the SOP, but vicious culling of a breed present in low numbers will result in unintended genetic problems that are not seen in breeds which are numerous. You'll get away with it for a few generations, then all of a sudden wonder what happened.

I cull, and eat, birds that are not what I want, but only for breeds and colors which are readily available.

to improve a breed, as Joseph has said many times, you have to hatch heavy and cull hard. why not have that breed that needs work like the dorking, and do just that?

I am in the process of hatching out all I can. 30 in my first 2 hatches (over 2 weeks) with more due over the next 2 weeks (and more eggs to set). all those birds that get culled, for any reason, will be marked as such and processed when they're large enough. I'm anticipating having plenty of culls to be processed, and another group that will continue being evaluated for breeding prospects and/or sale.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

Another good reason to use caution when bringing in birds from another line. Many breeders never bring in new blood, but very carefully line breed to prevent the effects of inbreeding

I would like to point out that you need a good individual on which to base your linebreeding. There is no benefit in creating uniform mediocrity.
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[AFChick]

Ok we have a genetics question... hate this lol

I purchased a trio of silver gray dorkings from a semi-local farm about 7.5 weeks ago. They have decent type etc and are still in the quarantine tractor due to them "fitting" that space well and also, due to what I've been hatching from them- whites. I am keeping them away from my other dorkings until I can get a clear and concise reason as to WHHYYYYY their offspring hatches either all white OR all white with singular black feather here and there (think paint silkie as far as the stray black feather here and there).

Sooo here are the facts:

1) They are PHENOTYPICALLY Silver Gray Dorkings- other than being not quite as hefty as my line of SGD's, they are the same- coloring, legs, toes, single combs, etc.

2) The seller says that they have NEVER been with any other birds such as the white dorkings or orps, which she also has- with no intruder cocks entering their pen either.

3) They have been here for 7.5 weeks in a VERY secure quarantine area with no one in or out, which means, to me anyway, that they are also "clean" from any unauthorized breedings which may have occurred BEFORE I brought them home.

4) the chicks hatch with yellow down and rose combs (cute but so NOT what I expected)

Any ideas? Could they be from a White dorking X SGD mating ? - meaning the adults I purchased, NOT the chicks I'm hatching from them .

LOL I'm at a loss