The Duck-ponics Experiment - Raising minnows
- Thread starter Wifezilla
- Start date
OMG! My DH and I were just talking about this! I think the ducks get far more attention than our chicks do. I'm still taking them out once a day, but DuckTV is hilarious, like a comedy, whereas ChickTV is more a drama! LOL
This is an excellent thread! You have given us inspiration to set up something very similar in our run. I wanted something that looked nicer than a kiddie pool, since I already have a Koi pond that wasn't anywhere near the run. I'd love to add their own pond so I don't have to upset the dynamics of the already established Koi pond. Love the ideas!
I'm curious as to how deep we should dig. We just have ducklings now, so I have no concept of size at this moment.
I've been back on forth on the size issue here...speaking kiddie pools that is. Bigger seemed nicer at first - that all of them could fit in it together, but then bigger seems to get dirty just as fast and obviously takes more water to refill. Also its nice to be able to give them a fresh cold pool of water on a hot day without using alot of water. And the ducks don't seem to care how big or small - just as long as they can fit in it! Their favorite small pool is one of those snow saucers for sledding.
I also have some big drakes and was worried that they might accidentally drown the hens in the larger pool, but so far my boys have been well behaved. Mostly they hang out as buddies and chase the girls away from the spot they want to be in. But spring is coming!
I'd love to have a deeper pond set up that my ducks could tip upside down in..but I do like to see them enjoy a fresh dip. They do seem to appreciate a clean bath
I also have some big drakes and was worried that they might accidentally drown the hens in the larger pool, but so far my boys have been well behaved. Mostly they hang out as buddies and chase the girls away from the spot they want to be in. But spring is coming!
I'd love to have a deeper pond set up that my ducks could tip upside down in..but I do like to see them enjoy a fresh dip. They do seem to appreciate a clean bath
Amazing...
Do you have some pictures of this filter system with the plants you describe?
- May 30, 2012
- 1
- 0
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Hi WZ, great thread! I've been in research & planning stages of a duck pond for our "micro-hatchery" (ha ha) and came across your duckponics experiment. I read through all 26 (and counting) pages, thanks for all the great ideas!
I was wondering if you might try another "plant substance" in addition to the duck weed? Another poster a few pages back posted some links, one of which referenced an "algae scrubber". This is just a simple plastic screen hanging vertically with water running in a sheet across it... the surface is roughed up to allow algae to cling to it easily, and light (in your case, daylight) encourages it to grow there. Once a week you just pull out the screens, scrape off the excess algae (which can grow in thick mats once it gets going) and rinse in tap water to clean.
I'm curious to see how well the ducks would take to algae as a food supplement. It could be fed fresh or even dried and crumbled. An algae scrubber plus skippy filter plus plant filter ("bog garden") may end up being the "holy grail" of duck pond maintenance - self-sustaining with minimal effort.
The algae scrubber is even easier to build than the skippy filter, so it won't take much to add one to your setup - all you need is some clear #7 plastic canvas (available at hobby shops or walmart) and a PVC pipe with a 1/8th inch slit cut to the width of your canvas sheet. There are a few calculations to keep in mind - you need to know how much flow your pump is putting out (best to measure at the end with buckets and stopwatch rather than just going by the pump rating); the flow of water needs to be at least 35gph across the width of the scrubber sheet, so if you're getting 350gph you can have a 10"-wide scrubber (length to your preference).
The other calculation it for the total surface area of the scrubber screen, based on the total gallons being filtered. This isn't as important since we just want a "proof of concept", but for a solar algae scrubber you'd want at least 2in sq per gallon (double if only one side will be getting light) to get the maximum algae-scrubbing effect (and the maximum algae food production for the ducks!). Thus, to fully scrub a 300g setup you'd need at least 600 sq in - in most setups, you're not going to be able to work that much surface area unless you're doing really long sheets (due to the 35gph per inch of width requirement) so again, don't worry about trying to "max out" the scrubber, just make something workable and see if you can grow enough algae to make a meaningfully addition to your birds' diet!
The algae scrubber wiki should answer any questions you have about building and using one:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_scrubber
I am definitely going to be doing this, but it will likely be next spring before it's up and running (don't even have the pond dug yet). It would be great to get some advance reports on how it works in the meantime.
I was wondering if you might try another "plant substance" in addition to the duck weed? Another poster a few pages back posted some links, one of which referenced an "algae scrubber". This is just a simple plastic screen hanging vertically with water running in a sheet across it... the surface is roughed up to allow algae to cling to it easily, and light (in your case, daylight) encourages it to grow there. Once a week you just pull out the screens, scrape off the excess algae (which can grow in thick mats once it gets going) and rinse in tap water to clean.
I'm curious to see how well the ducks would take to algae as a food supplement. It could be fed fresh or even dried and crumbled. An algae scrubber plus skippy filter plus plant filter ("bog garden") may end up being the "holy grail" of duck pond maintenance - self-sustaining with minimal effort.
The algae scrubber is even easier to build than the skippy filter, so it won't take much to add one to your setup - all you need is some clear #7 plastic canvas (available at hobby shops or walmart) and a PVC pipe with a 1/8th inch slit cut to the width of your canvas sheet. There are a few calculations to keep in mind - you need to know how much flow your pump is putting out (best to measure at the end with buckets and stopwatch rather than just going by the pump rating); the flow of water needs to be at least 35gph across the width of the scrubber sheet, so if you're getting 350gph you can have a 10"-wide scrubber (length to your preference).
The other calculation it for the total surface area of the scrubber screen, based on the total gallons being filtered. This isn't as important since we just want a "proof of concept", but for a solar algae scrubber you'd want at least 2in sq per gallon (double if only one side will be getting light) to get the maximum algae-scrubbing effect (and the maximum algae food production for the ducks!). Thus, to fully scrub a 300g setup you'd need at least 600 sq in - in most setups, you're not going to be able to work that much surface area unless you're doing really long sheets (due to the 35gph per inch of width requirement) so again, don't worry about trying to "max out" the scrubber, just make something workable and see if you can grow enough algae to make a meaningfully addition to your birds' diet!
The algae scrubber wiki should answer any questions you have about building and using one:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_scrubber
I am definitely going to be doing this, but it will likely be next spring before it's up and running (don't even have the pond dug yet). It would be great to get some advance reports on how it works in the meantime.
I have built and used the smaller type with artificial light supplement that are talked about in the previous link I gave, and they work pretty good, just take some tweaking. The basic premise is the same as a bog filter, or any biological filter for that matter, in that you are creating an environment for aerobic (those that thrive on oxygen) bacteria to start the whole ammonia to nitrate conversion cycle. The algae are just another medium for getting the job done. What interests me in the algae scrubbers was more the idea of producing a feed supplement for my aquaponic fish set-up, since they eat pretty much non-stop and the math for food production of fish is basically electricity and fish food needs to be as much less than the value of the finished product as possible. The waterfall style scrubber does work, but its build and maintenance can be a bit tedious if you are like me and have 100 other things to tend to, so I'm always looking for SSL (simple, stupid, lazy) alternatives. This link is where I've found some of the most inspiring ideas, including this latest upflow version.
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1687-The-new-Upflow-Algae-Scrubber-(UAS)
Ultimately for our ponds what I envision is something that is kind of a morphing of the upflow and waterfall designs. I think I've seen something like this before, maybe in Asia, where the water flow is diverted across shallow tables with very large surface areas exposed to as much sunlight as possible. I haven't tried this yet, but it is definitely on the list for this summer. Maybe take the plastic canvas and iron it into a stretched out fan fold, creating as much surface area as possible, and then placing it on a big table top with sides maybe a few inches high and feeding water through it from a spillway that is as wide as the whole table. Since I wouldn't be using this as the soul filtration I could play around with the flow rates, but I'm hoping that the crinkled up canvas will also create enough water agitation that it will provide its own adequate aeration as well. Another advantage to this approach is that the table with its shallow flow will mimic a shallow rippling stream, where not only is oxygen added, and algae grown, but the minimal depth also allows the sun's rays to better penetrate and work like a free energy U.V. sterilizer, helping to kill potential biological pathogens (something that always concerned me about duck pooh and fish pooh both becoming inputs in my families food supply).
The bog filter is in their catalog I believe.
http://www.marylandaquatic.com/retail/catalog_request.cfm
I have visited there numerous times and can attest to the efficacy of the method.. My thought is that a few ducks could be introduced to a large pond of this sort without issue, but my goal is to provide a low maintenance solution for a higher density of ducks. To do this in a way that does not require a constant dump of water, and near daily maintenance, I believe I'll be using a little bit of everything . So far for an 18'x10' free form pond that slopes from nothing to a 3' depth (approx. 3,200 gallons) that would be :
Large diameter bottom drain with all points of pond bottom sloping toward it to encourage sludge removal.
Large diameter ceramic air stone (or a trio of these if necessary) positioned 6-12" above the main drain to create a strata updraft and aid in moving sludge toward the main drain.
http://www.kensfish.com/moreinfo/ceramic-disk-air-stone-tourmaline-4-3-16inch.html
Large diameter main drain outfall pipe with enough flow and fall to prevent accumulation of sediments and sludge (probably a 3-4" diameter PVC pipe).
Bottom/Main Drain line empties into a conical sediment settlement tank with its own dump valve for emptying.
Outfall from conical separator is gravity flow exiting top and passing through a 50 gallon sized box filter with slide out mechanical filter media pads of increasing fineness and finishing with 10 PPI (pores per inch) reticulated foam before passing to bioreactor.
32" plastic sphere (re-purposed swimming pool sand filter) with bottom center mounted air stone, housing Caldness material (this reactor is essentially what is known as a fluidized bed filter).
Gravity outfall from reactor feeds return pump that send water back uphill and discharges into horizontal algae scrubber/U.V/ filter beds which empty into planted bog filter.
Bog shaped to funnel flow toward waterfall return to main pond. Waterfall provides additional oxygenation as well as minimal U.V. exposure as well.
Surface skimmer, located opposite water fall, is DIY type that stands away from edge of pond by about a foot to allow water to pass in from all sides. This is so that a wreath of wire screen/mesh can hang on the lip but when lifted out, will catch and take all of the feathers that have accumulated with it. A finer mesh lift out basket is fitted to the inside of the skimmer weir which basically functions as a water level limiter.
What I have outlined is basically a H.D. version of a koi pond set up (koi produce copious amounts of pooh and require fairly pristine water to thrive). The risky business with bottom drains begin with the hassles of fixing a leaky installation, so the idea is that you can't be careful enough when installing one. The other is that depending on how you plumb it, there exists the very real possibility that you could have a malfunction that causes the pond to completely drain. I know that this could be controlled by adding solenoid controlled valves connected to a water level float, but the valve sizes and electrical componentry, all made water proof, etc., would be too complicated and pricey to be considered ideal IMO. Still noodling through that one, but a pressure tested watertight assembly is critical to avoid this.
http://algaescrubber.net/forums/showthread.php?1687-The-new-Upflow-Algae-Scrubber-(UAS)
Ultimately for our ponds what I envision is something that is kind of a morphing of the upflow and waterfall designs. I think I've seen something like this before, maybe in Asia, where the water flow is diverted across shallow tables with very large surface areas exposed to as much sunlight as possible. I haven't tried this yet, but it is definitely on the list for this summer. Maybe take the plastic canvas and iron it into a stretched out fan fold, creating as much surface area as possible, and then placing it on a big table top with sides maybe a few inches high and feeding water through it from a spillway that is as wide as the whole table. Since I wouldn't be using this as the soul filtration I could play around with the flow rates, but I'm hoping that the crinkled up canvas will also create enough water agitation that it will provide its own adequate aeration as well. Another advantage to this approach is that the table with its shallow flow will mimic a shallow rippling stream, where not only is oxygen added, and algae grown, but the minimal depth also allows the sun's rays to better penetrate and work like a free energy U.V. sterilizer, helping to kill potential biological pathogens (something that always concerned me about duck pooh and fish pooh both becoming inputs in my families food supply).
The bog filter is in their catalog I believe.
http://www.marylandaquatic.com/retail/catalog_request.cfm
I have visited there numerous times and can attest to the efficacy of the method.. My thought is that a few ducks could be introduced to a large pond of this sort without issue, but my goal is to provide a low maintenance solution for a higher density of ducks. To do this in a way that does not require a constant dump of water, and near daily maintenance, I believe I'll be using a little bit of everything . So far for an 18'x10' free form pond that slopes from nothing to a 3' depth (approx. 3,200 gallons) that would be :
Large diameter bottom drain with all points of pond bottom sloping toward it to encourage sludge removal.
Large diameter ceramic air stone (or a trio of these if necessary) positioned 6-12" above the main drain to create a strata updraft and aid in moving sludge toward the main drain.
http://www.kensfish.com/moreinfo/ceramic-disk-air-stone-tourmaline-4-3-16inch.html
Large diameter main drain outfall pipe with enough flow and fall to prevent accumulation of sediments and sludge (probably a 3-4" diameter PVC pipe).
Bottom/Main Drain line empties into a conical sediment settlement tank with its own dump valve for emptying.
Outfall from conical separator is gravity flow exiting top and passing through a 50 gallon sized box filter with slide out mechanical filter media pads of increasing fineness and finishing with 10 PPI (pores per inch) reticulated foam before passing to bioreactor.
32" plastic sphere (re-purposed swimming pool sand filter) with bottom center mounted air stone, housing Caldness material (this reactor is essentially what is known as a fluidized bed filter).
Gravity outfall from reactor feeds return pump that send water back uphill and discharges into horizontal algae scrubber/U.V/ filter beds which empty into planted bog filter.
Bog shaped to funnel flow toward waterfall return to main pond. Waterfall provides additional oxygenation as well as minimal U.V. exposure as well.
Surface skimmer, located opposite water fall, is DIY type that stands away from edge of pond by about a foot to allow water to pass in from all sides. This is so that a wreath of wire screen/mesh can hang on the lip but when lifted out, will catch and take all of the feathers that have accumulated with it. A finer mesh lift out basket is fitted to the inside of the skimmer weir which basically functions as a water level limiter.
What I have outlined is basically a H.D. version of a koi pond set up (koi produce copious amounts of pooh and require fairly pristine water to thrive). The risky business with bottom drains begin with the hassles of fixing a leaky installation, so the idea is that you can't be careful enough when installing one. The other is that depending on how you plumb it, there exists the very real possibility that you could have a malfunction that causes the pond to completely drain. I know that this could be controlled by adding solenoid controlled valves connected to a water level float, but the valve sizes and electrical componentry, all made water proof, etc., would be too complicated and pricey to be considered ideal IMO. Still noodling through that one, but a pressure tested watertight assembly is critical to avoid this.
- Nov 16, 2012
- 2,749
- 158
- 226
Instead of using any dirt or what not look into getting some hydroton rocks...they are what you use in hydroponics to anchor plants.Here is what I have so far. The water feature is the old chimenea.
No, I haven't hid tubes or anything yet since I am still moving things around. The big decorative pot is plastic and it was on sale for $19. Not sure what medium I am going to put in it yet...I have to give that some thought.
I bought a T connector so I could run half the water through the chimenea and the other half through the big pot, but my son managed to lose it already.
I went ahead and build a modified skippy filter out of a pond plant container, some old quilt batting and some green scrubby pads. It is kind of half skippy filter half file basket filter. I wont know if it is helping for a couple of weeks.
I also went and got more plants from the local pond. I will post photos in a bit to see if you can help me identify them.
Wow I love this thread! I read all 26 pages lol! I can't wait to try this when we get our ducks (and hopefully chickens), I've had a "pond" for about 5-7 years but I never tried aquaponics just raised a few fish for fun (koi, goldfish, fat head minnow, and a few mosquito fish). I say pond loosely since it was really just a hole my cousins and I dug in the ground with a liner above it like a waterfall when it rained. It lasted till last fall when unusually dry weather made the water so low that some cats and a crafty raccoon did in all the fish and wildlife 
. We'll probably either get a hard liner or install a PVC liner and make it legit but I dunno unless the ducks make it too problematic to have it only clay bottomed. It was always clear just a few hornworts and Carolina cabomba's in the water and some duck weed an water lettuce were all it needed, I added snails at the start spring to take care of the algae before the plants grew. A word of caution though someone recommend mosquito fish I HIGHLY recommend avoiding them at all costs! They are extremely aggressive fish, they will eat all the other fishes larvae BEFORE even touching the mosquito's and will harass larger fish to DEATH! I got two my accident and thought they was harmless but NO it killed my koi and tried to kill the minnows before a cat sorted that out, they were also mean when I fed the pond and would force the other fish to wait till they finished eating before they could come over. If you're trying to keep your duckweed you might want to avoid goldfish as they love the stuff, the minnows like mosquito's more and will only eat that as a last resort. I think the best fish to use is the fathead minnow (aka rosey red they're the same species just colored differently) they love bugs, breed rapidly with little help (a medium pvc pipe is perfect or a cup with a rock in it), and won't bother your plants they do eat snails eggs but seem disinterested once the snails get a little bigger. Some people don't like the snails since they can be a pest but my fish ate them so fast I actually had to set up a tank in the house so I could breed them! We'll probably do the same with the duckponics pond minus the water lettuce I only want to grow thing's they'll eat and while water lettuce is a great filter it just grows too dang fast! Frogbit seems like it could work, but I don't know if ducks like it so maybe something else? Does anyone know if they like water celery or wild rice?
. We'll probably either get a hard liner or install a PVC liner and make it legit but I dunno unless the ducks make it too problematic to have it only clay bottomed. It was always clear just a few hornworts and Carolina cabomba's in the water and some duck weed an water lettuce were all it needed, I added snails at the start spring to take care of the algae before the plants grew. A word of caution though someone recommend mosquito fish I HIGHLY recommend avoiding them at all costs! They are extremely aggressive fish, they will eat all the other fishes larvae BEFORE even touching the mosquito's and will harass larger fish to DEATH! I got two my accident and thought they was harmless but NO it killed my koi and tried to kill the minnows before a cat sorted that out, they were also mean when I fed the pond and would force the other fish to wait till they finished eating before they could come over. If you're trying to keep your duckweed you might want to avoid goldfish as they love the stuff, the minnows like mosquito's more and will only eat that as a last resort. I think the best fish to use is the fathead minnow (aka rosey red they're the same species just colored differently) they love bugs, breed rapidly with little help (a medium pvc pipe is perfect or a cup with a rock in it), and won't bother your plants they do eat snails eggs but seem disinterested once the snails get a little bigger. Some people don't like the snails since they can be a pest but my fish ate them so fast I actually had to set up a tank in the house so I could breed them! We'll probably do the same with the duckponics pond minus the water lettuce I only want to grow thing's they'll eat and while water lettuce is a great filter it just grows too dang fast! Frogbit seems like it could work, but I don't know if ducks like it so maybe something else? Does anyone know if they like water celery or wild rice?
Oh my, have I got my spring planned out. Such great information. I plan on expanding about 20 feet over for a duck run. I plan on making a stream type setup that flows into the pond. This will be the warm weather watering hole for the chickens. (I had to separate the ducks. Cashew was pouncing on the chicks, and the dog) Working on the plans using a lot of your ideas Wifezilla and others that have added to this thread. These are photos of our "winter pond". Its easy to drain, right now i have a rain downspout burried under the ground with chicken wire over the front and a cinder block at the opening so the water goes right into the downspout and not into the duck house. Currently I have a 35 gallon drum with a spigot and small hose so I can refresh the pond daily, and not drag the hose 100 feet everyday to fill it. If it freezes I just pour a tea kettle of hot water into the barrel and over the spigot so it flows out. It has only frozen up (the barrell) completely a couple of times, then I just drag out the hose and refill the pond. The ducks were evicted from the rental house , and now that they have a place of their own they are much cleaner. They only poop in one corner of the duck house and it really makes cleaning easy.
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