The EE braggers thread!!!
- Thread starter KatyTheChickenLady
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You may have just worded it incorrectly, and meant something different, but; a hen with one copy of the blue egg gene is definately going to lay blue or green eggs................................ when crossed to a roo not carrying a copy of the blue egg gene, on average, only half of her pullets will lay blue/green
That would be true if the hen or rooster (or both) were homozygous for Pea comb. But if the hen is heterozygous for pea comb and the rooster is single combed, one quarter of the female offspring will lay blue/green eggs.
You must be going on another myth; that the single combed offspring can not lay blue eggs. I've seen that bit of misinformation perpetuated on this thread. Since the two genes [the one for blue eggs and the one for pea combs] appear to be located close to each other and are both dominate, it is more likely that if they inherit one in the cross you mention, they will inherit both.............. but its not cut and dried. In fact, the Creem Legbar, a single combed, blue egg laying breed, was developed off the same pea combed, mongel chickens that the Araucanas and Ameraucanas were......................... but in Europe instead of the U.S, and originally crossed to single combed breeds................ and they are [or supposed to be] pure for the blue egg gene.
ETA: In the cross you refer to, half of the pullets will be pea combed...................half will have lay blue eggs..................... and its more likely that the pea combed pullets will be the ones that lay the blue [or green] eggs.
You may have just worded it incorrectly, and meant something different, but; a hen with one copy of the blue egg gene is definately going to lay blue or green eggs................................ when crossed to a roo not carrying a copy of the blue egg gene, on average, only half of her pullets will lay blue/green
That would be true if the hen or rooster (or both) were homozygous for Pea comb. But if the hen is heterozygous for pea comb and the rooster is single combed, one quarter of the female offspring will lay blue/green eggs.
You must be going on another myth; that the single combed offspring can not lay blue eggs. I've seen that bit of misinformation perpetuated on this thread. Since the two genes [the one for blue eggs and the one for pea combs] appear to be located close to each other and are both dominate, it is more likely that if they inherit one in the cross you mention, they will inherit both.............. but its not cut and dried. In fact, the Creem Legbar, a single combed, blue egg laying breed, was developed off the same pea combed, mongel chickens that the Araucanas and Ameraucanas were......................... but in Europe instead of the U.S, and originally crossed to single combed breeds................ and they are [or supposed to be] pure for the blue egg gene.
ETA: In the cross you refer to, half of the pullets will be pea combed...................half will have lay blue eggs..................... and its more likely that the pea combed pullets will be the ones that lay the blue [or green] eggs.
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Quote:
That would be true if the hen or rooster (or both) were homozygous for Pea comb. But if the hen is heterozygous for pea comb and the rooster is single combed, one quarter of the female offspring will lay blue/green eggs.
You must be going on another myth; that the single combed offspring can not lay blue eggs. I've seen that bit of misinformation perpetuated on this thread. Since the two genes [the one for blue eggs and the one for pea combs] appear to be located close to each other and are both dominate, it is more likely that if they inherit one in the cross you mention, they will inherit both.............. but its not cut and dried. In fact, the Creem Legbar, a single combed, blue egg laying breed, was developed off the same pea combed, mongel chickens that the Araucanas and Ameraucanas were......................... but in Europe instead of the U.S, and originally crossed to single combed breeds................ and they are [or supposed to be] pure for the blue egg gene.
ETA: In the cross you refer to, half of the pullets will be pea combed...................half will have lay blue eggs..................... and its more likely that the pea combed pullets will be the ones that lay the blue [or green] eggs.
The O gene and the P allele are usually inherited together, about 97%. For example, of you breed a hen homozygous for both Pea comb and O to a single combed rooster lacking the O gene, all of her female offspring will be pea combed and lay blue or green eggs. If you then breed the resulting hens back to their father, one half of the pullets will pea combed, and one half of the pea combed pullets will inherit one copy of the O gene, therefore, 25% off the female offspring on average will lay blue or green eggs. Of course there is a possibility of a chromosomal crossing over, but on average that would be the result.
That would be true if the hen or rooster (or both) were homozygous for Pea comb. But if the hen is heterozygous for pea comb and the rooster is single combed, one quarter of the female offspring will lay blue/green eggs.
You must be going on another myth; that the single combed offspring can not lay blue eggs. I've seen that bit of misinformation perpetuated on this thread. Since the two genes [the one for blue eggs and the one for pea combs] appear to be located close to each other and are both dominate, it is more likely that if they inherit one in the cross you mention, they will inherit both.............. but its not cut and dried. In fact, the Creem Legbar, a single combed, blue egg laying breed, was developed off the same pea combed, mongel chickens that the Araucanas and Ameraucanas were......................... but in Europe instead of the U.S, and originally crossed to single combed breeds................ and they are [or supposed to be] pure for the blue egg gene.
ETA: In the cross you refer to, half of the pullets will be pea combed...................half will have lay blue eggs..................... and its more likely that the pea combed pullets will be the ones that lay the blue [or green] eggs.
The O gene and the P allele are usually inherited together, about 97%. For example, of you breed a hen homozygous for both Pea comb and O to a single combed rooster lacking the O gene, all of her female offspring will be pea combed and lay blue or green eggs. If you then breed the resulting hens back to their father, one half of the pullets will pea combed, and one half of the pea combed pullets will inherit one copy of the O gene, therefore, 25% off the female offspring on average will lay blue or green eggs. Of course there is a possibility of a chromosomal crossing over, but on average that would be the result.
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I respectfully suggest that your logic is flawed. There should be, on average, 50% of the pullets inheriteing the O gene; and approximately 97% of those will have inherited the P gene [and be pea combed]. This leaves the approximate 3% of the chromozonal split having occured that allows for the single combed, blue egg layers. In other words, of 1000 pullets, chances are good that 500 will lay blue eggs............................. of those 500; 485 should be pea combed and only 15 of those will have single combs. With only an approximately 3% chance of producing a single combed pullet that lays blue eggs from the pairing of a heterozygous pea combed chicken and a single combed chicken, I see why the myth gets perpetuated. The math for O is very simple; 100% of the chicks from homozygous O crossed to chickens [regardless of comb type] not carrying it are heterozygous O.................................. heterozygous O crossed to chickens [again, regardless of comb type] not carrying it results in 50% of the resulting chicks being heterozygous O.
I respectfully suggest that your logic is flawed. There should be, on average, 50% of the pullets inheriteing the O gene; and approximately 97% of those will have inherited the P gene [and be pea combed]. This leaves the approximate 3% of the chromozonal split having occured that allows for the single combed, blue egg layers. In other words, of 1000 pullets, chances are good that 500 will lay blue eggs............................. of those 500; 485 should be pea combed and only 15 of those will have single combs. With only an approximately 3% chance of producing a single combed pullet that lays blue eggs from the pairing of a heterozygous pea combed chicken and a single combed chicken, I see why the myth gets perpetuated. The math for O is very simple; 100% of the chicks from homozygous O crossed to chickens [regardless of comb type] not carrying it are heterozygous O.................................. heterozygous O crossed to chickens [again, regardless of comb type] not carrying it results in 50% of the resulting chicks being heterozygous O.
There are lots of chickens in S. America that you would think to call an "Araucana" but they have single combs (contamination from commercial/production genetics). It's just as SteveH is saying - single comb does not absolutely negate blue eggs. There are a few examples in the Olive Egger thread of people having single-combed Olive Eggers. You wouldn't typically "expect" it, but it happens.
My two EE's.
The girl on the left is from a blue Cochin hen x EE rooster. Her silver sister on the right is from two EE's. Both lay lovely green eggs.
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I respectfully suggest that your logic is flawed. There should be, on average, 50% of the pullets inheriteing the O gene; and approximately 97% of those will have inherited the P gene [and be pea combed]. This leaves the approximate 3% of the chromozonal split having occured that allows for the single combed, blue egg layers. In other words, of 1000 pullets, chances are good that 500 will lay blue eggs............................. of those 500; 485 should be pea combed and only 15 of those will have single combs. With only an approximately 3% chance of producing a single combed pullet that lays blue eggs from the pairing of a heterozygous pea combed chicken and a single combed chicken, I see why the myth gets perpetuated. The math for O is very simple; 100% of the chicks from homozygous O crossed to chickens [regardless of comb type] not carrying it are heterozygous O.................................. heterozygous O crossed to chickens [again, regardless of comb type] not carrying it results in 50% of the resulting chicks being heterozygous O.
Thank you for your explanation, however, where do the pea combed brown or white egg layers come in? Also, you said that of the 50% that inherit the O gene, 97% will be pea combed. That would mean that on average, more are single combed than pea combed. I am all for finding logic, no hard feelings.
I respectfully suggest that your logic is flawed. There should be, on average, 50% of the pullets inheriteing the O gene; and approximately 97% of those will have inherited the P gene [and be pea combed]. This leaves the approximate 3% of the chromozonal split having occured that allows for the single combed, blue egg layers. In other words, of 1000 pullets, chances are good that 500 will lay blue eggs............................. of those 500; 485 should be pea combed and only 15 of those will have single combs. With only an approximately 3% chance of producing a single combed pullet that lays blue eggs from the pairing of a heterozygous pea combed chicken and a single combed chicken, I see why the myth gets perpetuated. The math for O is very simple; 100% of the chicks from homozygous O crossed to chickens [regardless of comb type] not carrying it are heterozygous O.................................. heterozygous O crossed to chickens [again, regardless of comb type] not carrying it results in 50% of the resulting chicks being heterozygous O.
Thank you for your explanation, however, where do the pea combed brown or white egg layers come in? Also, you said that of the 50% that inherit the O gene, 97% will be pea combed. That would mean that on average, more are single combed than pea combed. I am all for finding logic, no hard feelings.
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Very true.
Very true.
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Beautiful hens!
Beautiful hens!
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I hope I'm not comeing off as an arrogant know-it-all, and rereading my own posts makes me fear that I am. I have, however, spent some time studying and memorizing the genetics of the blue egg, and also a bit on pea combs........................ and learned both by breeding and by studying other's research that some information I frequently heard concerning the connection between the two is wrong. They [the two allees] are thought to be located next to or near each other in the chromozonal sequence....................... but certainly not inseperable. There are many breeds with pea combs that lay brown or tan eggs; Brahma, Cornish, and some games to name a few. In fact, if the blue egg layer was actually a S. American native, it would be probable they were originally single combed; the pea comb being introduced by a bird from a more northern climate where cold weather made the pea comb more advantageous to winter health [or from a game breed, where either a dubbed single comb or a naturally close fitting pea comb gives an advantage in fighting]. Both O [for blue eggs] and P [for pea combs] being dominate genes, coincidently located close to each other in the genetic information, it would soon lead to the majority population of blue egg layers being pea combed.
As far as the bird that is heterozygous for both pea comb and blue eggs being crossed to a brown egger that is single combed, here are the probable numbers for 1000 female offspring:
485 @ pea combed blue/green egg layers
15 @ pea combed brown egg layers
485 @ single combed brown egg layers
15 @ single combed blue/green egg layers
------------------------------
= 1000 total [and this is why they say to only keep the pea combed EEs; out of the 500 to keep, only 15 will lay brown eggs...................... of the 500 culled, only 15 would have laid blue/green eggs]
I hope I'm not comeing off as an arrogant know-it-all, and rereading my own posts makes me fear that I am. I have, however, spent some time studying and memorizing the genetics of the blue egg, and also a bit on pea combs........................ and learned both by breeding and by studying other's research that some information I frequently heard concerning the connection between the two is wrong. They [the two allees] are thought to be located next to or near each other in the chromozonal sequence....................... but certainly not inseperable. There are many breeds with pea combs that lay brown or tan eggs; Brahma, Cornish, and some games to name a few. In fact, if the blue egg layer was actually a S. American native, it would be probable they were originally single combed; the pea comb being introduced by a bird from a more northern climate where cold weather made the pea comb more advantageous to winter health [or from a game breed, where either a dubbed single comb or a naturally close fitting pea comb gives an advantage in fighting]. Both O [for blue eggs] and P [for pea combs] being dominate genes, coincidently located close to each other in the genetic information, it would soon lead to the majority population of blue egg layers being pea combed.
As far as the bird that is heterozygous for both pea comb and blue eggs being crossed to a brown egger that is single combed, here are the probable numbers for 1000 female offspring:
485 @ pea combed blue/green egg layers
15 @ pea combed brown egg layers
485 @ single combed brown egg layers
15 @ single combed blue/green egg layers
------------------------------
= 1000 total [and this is why they say to only keep the pea combed EEs; out of the 500 to keep, only 15 will lay brown eggs...................... of the 500 culled, only 15 would have laid blue/green eggs]
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