The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[speckledhen]

Was trying to photograph the males' combs, but having almost zero luck, LOL. Need a helper in there. One has a 5 pointer. Another couple have 6 points, it appears. One, I'm not sure if it's 6 or 7 points or 8. I'm not even sure I got all 5 males in these pics. They're all over me when I go in with a camera.








This guy has the best comb. I think he's one of the larger males, too, but don't quote me on that. It's crazy in there!

 

[1muttsfan]

Nice strait combs. Little hoodlums!

 

[speckledhen]

You can't tell but one has a nice little wave in it. I don't sweat that because they almost always straighten up as they mature. They're still really young. But you know me, I'm a sucker for a nice 5 pointer and a balanced head like my Atlas. Isaac had a tiny little pesky 6th point but his comb was gorgeous. Walt Leonard once commented on it, even, what a near perfect head he had. Atlas's comb was even better. He sure looks like Grandpa Ike in a lot of ways, especially his kind eyes.

 

[speckledhen]

You know, I was recently "schooled" by someone in a genetics question. I very well knew the answer to it, I'm not a moron, not a neophyte with basic genetics, however, I also know for a FACT that genetics are not 100% reliable, can be non-textbook, if you will. One example was in the dwarf gene that popped up in my Delaware line, probably the result of an outcross. The breeder had never seen a dwarf, but she was improving her line and voila! Dwarfs appeared in some eggs hatched from my Delawares. But, that's not the non-textbook part. So, I had opportunity to research and did a LOT of research. The type mine exhibited most often was this:

From
http://www.wow.com/wiki/Dwarfism_in_chickens




Quote: It was not pretty, very sad. Had two here, both cockerels, when I crossed two related birds I did not know carried the gene. One gene from mama, one gene from dad and you have a dwarf, almost always male.

BUT, there is also a dwarfism that happens spontaneously in a line where no sign of it had ever been seen before. Not sure what type this would be classified as-there are several types of dwarfism such as autosomal, sex linked and sex linked recessive. That happened with my hatchery BRs years ago. One dwarf, one time only, another male. This one lived longer than the Thyrogenous type, just had short legs, looked like a BR pullet, did not develop a comb like a male. Never before and never afterward did any of the birds of that line produce a dwarf.

HERE is the non-textbook part of this story: Years ago, in Oregon, Ladyhawk's veterinarian was coincidentally doing a long-term study of dwarfism in poultry. Luckily for him, she owned two hens from my Delaware line, one smaller bodied, one big and chunky. He got permission to do genetic testing on those hens for his project. What he found was astonishing and something he said that others told him was not even possible.

The small hen had no dwarf gene present. Her sister, the chunky one? She carried TWO dwarf genes! He said she would always produce a dwarf if you hatched from her, regardless of the male she was bred with. This situation, among others, is why I say that genetics are not 100% absolutes. They are gremlins, playing tricks on you and giving you results you never expected. What you see is not always what you get with genes, that's for certain. I've had other weird stuff happen that I am constantly told is impossible, but I've had it happen more than once. A completely barred bird from a Sandhill Preservation lineage Blue Orp over a breeder type both sides RIR/Buff Orp, stock-no fence jumping involved. I know why now, but then, it was a complete shock. No barred birds involved. Black/black barred/black hackled birds from a splash hen (yes, she's splash, not light blue-I know splash) So, no one can tell me that genetics are all black and white. I've seen too much.


Next subject, what I want out of my Barred Plymouth Rocks. What I want, not what anyone else thinks I should want:
First of all, I am not a typical breeder, as you can tell. I really am not a breeder, not anymore, just a more serious than average backyard hobbyist, I guess. I do not show, I will not show, I do not attend shows. I am not ill-informed. I know what a great BR looks like. I know flaws/faults when I see them.

From all my chickens, I want longevity. I want healthy, robust, decently long-lived birds.
It sort of goes without saying that from my hens, I want eggs. I want an average production, not below average, not necessarily high production, but average weekly production during their prime. I do not want them prone to reproductive malfunctions like all the hens I had from Ideal Poultry.

From the males, I want a broad, deep chest, wide leg breadth, regal head with balanced comb with preferably 5 points. I want a long back, proper tail set that is not too high nor droopy. I want good horizontal wing carriage. I want straight barring, may not be super sharp but I want straight, not chevron. And I want superior temperament-I will not watch my back in the pens. And I want him to perform properly in regard to breeding the hens, not abusive to them, and I want a rooster who is alert while on range as a proper rooster should be. Atlas falls short on a couple of these issues-the back and the barring, most obvious. He does, however, perform admirably as a breeding male and an alert protector and is as sweet as you could want with me.

From the hens, I want a wide head, wide across the back, round undershape, proper topline and sharp, straight barring. I want good weight on the breeders, chunky gals. I do not want them to be aggressive troublemakers, above and beyond normal pecking order.

I do not want Cochin-y or Orp-like underfluff, though that is not my top priority at this point. I pay attention to it now, but if all other things are good, unless it's super bad, it's fine. I have a black Rock hen who is super fluffy, like an Orp or Cochin. She also has a side sprig on the comb and because of those two things, she was never reproduced. She was a fine layer, though.

I will cull deformities, of course, like one poor RIR hen I had with a curved spine, though I gave her to a friend for a layer and she performed fine as such; side sprigs on the comb are gone, of course. Wrong leg color is gone, too. High tails on hens mean they are layers automatically. I see no reason to kill a laying hen for any faults if she can lay eggs for someone, but that's just me.

I will cull for temperament. I don't care if the rooster is PERFECT per SOP, he is OUT if he attacks me. He is too stupid to be allowed to reproduce. You don't breed stupid.

 

[1muttsfan]

 

[speckledhen]

If you can see it, one feather on this male on the left wing is different, making it look like a zipper, LOL. He's the smallest, but best barred overall.

 

[1muttsfan]

Aw that's cute, a boy with his chicken

 

[speckledhen]

That little guy is one that is in the top two. He has a 6 pointer, but he's one of the largest males.

 

[speckledhen]

I corralled the four largest males for photos of the head/comb. #4 is the smallest of the top four. I did not photograph the #5 male today. He's a little guy but has super barring and is fiercely independent. My husband thinks it's because he's smarter than the rest. He was running around the pen catching ants rather than dustbathing with everyone else.
This is the largest male but has the most points on his comb, looks to be seven points. #2 and #3 are not much different in size. #4 is smaller than the top three, but not by a lot.
Two photos of each.









This one probably has the best comb of all.




This guy has a wave but it will probably straighten up as he matures. Not a bad comb at all, looks like 5 points, just not super straight yet. He is the next to smallest of the five males.






Group photo. First time loose in the big pen. I think the one in front is the #3 cockerel. Nice looking bunch, aren't they?

 

[1muttsfan]

Yes they are. Smart and quick - sounds like a good free-range roo.