The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[speckledhen]

That fight must have been scary! (When you're up there alone on a mountaintop)

I bet Finn was reacting to the full moon - my very laid back Ragdoll cat, Loki, has been a nut case these last few nights.

Hmm, didn't think about the moon affecting Finn. Could be!

Well, husband was about to reach for the phone to call 911 because we fully expected to hear a gunshot next, but when whoever was on the motorcycle sped off, things calmed down, or at least to a low enough level that it did not travel across the woods and up the hill to us. In a set of detective novels I read by J.A. Konrath, there is a very badly behaved cat named Mr. Friskers who falls from on high to the heads/faces of cops and criminals alike. He's saved the main character in minor ways a few times but she hates him. He's her mother's cat. He's a hoot and a half, that cat, BUT, I'd have shot him already myself. I wish Finn would attack on command and he will...but only Lambie-pie.

 

[speckledhen]

Love this article, one of the last things I saw on FB before deleting my acct.
http://http://www.wideopencountry.c...Partner&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=TxHC

Wilderness is good for women. Facebook is bad for your health. Those two facts, plus.... sometimes people, usually of the male persuasion, need this.

or maybe, this


(present company excepted, Isaiah).

 

[speckledhen]

I really, really, reallyreallyreallyreally wish that #1 male did not have that pesky comb flaw. He is humongous, calm and friendly and loves attention. #2 is friendly, but doesn't have quite as much personality and definitely not as wide as #1. He may be my keeper, IF I end up keeping any of the males at all.

#3, the smaller male has some real presence, but he is a feisty little critter. Already am having to teach him not to bite my finger. He usually wins the sparring matches.


Just look at #3 posing for me. He's really full of himself.








And Athena, being much better behaved than her brothers.

 

[speckledhen]

Ida's son and daughter, about 4 weeks old, going on 5 weeks. They are more standoffish because Ida is. Wynette's are super friendly, as were all of Dottie's because those two hens were/are both lap chickens. The kids take cues from mom, most definitely, I've found over the years, but they'll come around because it's in their nature to be friendly.








And Ida her big, ol' self.

 

[speckledhen]

Already, though they have not grown out beyond almost 7 weeks, I see a problem here with all the males.

The biggest male (#1) has a bad comb, okay but not the sharpest barring, but he's a tank and a half. So, his best asset, aside from his personality, is size. It's awesome and exactly what you'd want.
#2 is okay, barring about the same as the big guy (okay but not spectacular), slightly less wide, nice comb so he's not entirely out of the running, but....still hesitating.
#3 has superior barring, nice comb though 6 pointer, BUT, he is just almost shrimp-like compared to #1 so he's out.

Male #4, the one who is two weeks younger, seems like he's going to be on the smaller side-there is just a huge discrepancy between her two youngest and the big older males, more than I'd expect with this age gap. He feathered in too fast, IMO, for his barring to end up as nice as I want it to be in my keeper.

So, here we are. If I cannot improve on Atlas in any way, I'm just not sure I want to keep any of these. The size of the youngest male and the size of the best barred older one make me think maybe Ida, in spite of her being my biggest Stukel Rock hen, is throwing small males. I mean, Tessa is her daughter and Tessa is smaller than Lizzie. Now, why would a humongous hen like Ida, when put with her son, Atlas, throw small progeny??

I don't mind a backyard mixed "casual" flock, but I find that I am more particular about my Barred Rocks after having the quality I've had here, if you can understand my position. I'm not a big-time breeder or anything but still, I don't want to go backwards. These would make fine flock leaders for someone who is not that interested in some higher standard. They are not terrible by any means, just not what I was hoping for.

Check out these overhead comparison photos and you'll see what I mean.

#2 left, #3 middle, #1 off to the right-cut off the pic, but even with that, you can see his bull neck.


Here we are, the large and the small of it. HUGE size difference in these same-age males!

 

[getaclue]

speckled, I think I would hatch out at least 25 more chicks, and keep the best 2 males, and the best 4 - 5 females. Cull the rest, grow them big enough to process for eating, or sell them. Even when breeding the best lines, a breeder usually has to hatch out at least 25 chicks to get the quality needed to maintain their lines. You already know this, and I'm not saying you don't. I'm reminding myself of these things too.

I too have good quality chickens. I got everyone situated, and my coop running smoothly. This year I have to hatch out some chicks, and refresh my stock. Dealing with rearranging my existing stock in my coops, where to put what chicks, at what age, who to pair them with, who to cull, are not conducive to a smooth running coop. I like having a smooth running coop, and am very comfortable with it. Introducing all this chaos takes me out of my comfort zone. No, it's not overwhelming, but just not the level of smoothness I've become accustom to, but it has to be done. I suspect that may be some of what you are facing. By reminding you of the obvious, I'm reminding me too. Empathy!

 

[speckledhen]

speckled, I think I would hatch out at least 25 more chicks, and keep the best 2 males, and the best 4 - 5 females. Cull the rest, grow them big enough to process for eating, or sell them. Even when breeding the best lines, a breeder usually has to hatch out at least 25 chicks to get the quality needed to maintain their lines. You already know this, and I'm not saying you don't. I'm reminding myself of these things too.

I too have good quality chickens. I got everyone situated, and my coop running smoothly. This year I have to hatch out some chicks, and refresh my stock. Dealing with rearranging my existing stock in my coops, where to put what chicks, at what age, who to pair them with, who to cull, are not conducive to a smooth running coop. I like having a smooth running coop, and am very comfortable with it. Introducing all this chaos takes me out of my comfort zone. No, it's not overwhelming, but just not the level of smoothness I've become accustom to, but it has to be done. I suspect that may be some of what you are facing. By reminding you of the obvious, I'm reminding me too. Empathy!

You are, of course, absolutely right. I want to have an extra male in case something happens to Atlas and I do need extra layers, but maybe I'm just not ready to deal with hatching the number I need to pick from. The only reason I have these is because both Ida and Wynette were broody at around the same time. They are 5 years old, Dru only about 6 months younger than they are. I lost Dru's mother, Dottie, as you know. Lizzie and Tessa as the only layers in their prime so it's really hard to hatch many at once. Since Tessa is Ida's daughter, makes me wonder if she also will produce small progeny. The small male could be Tessa's. I know that one of hers did hatch, just don't know which it was. Out of the four, one was marked as Tessa's, one was marked as Ida's and the other two, I was not sure of, but now, I'm sure one belonged to the splash Rock.

The older hens just don't lay consistently. I may be stuck with small groups and hope that there will be one or two keepers in a group somewhere along the line-but, I'm working on borrowed time with the older hens.

All that said, I am not happy with the size of Ida's chicks and I suspect, seeing the almost 5 week olds that I know for sure are hers, that the small cockerel is also hers, or maybe her daughter, Tessa's. That surprised me, truly did.

Honestly, it occurred to me to sell Atlas and Lizzie as a pair, sell all the chicks and just have layers for awhile. I was in contact with brahmapapa (Tom in NY) about getting some hatching eggs from him but his Brahmas were not laying and I'm waiting to see if he can get me any before the season is too long in the tooth, so to speak. So, that's a real left turn, isn't it?


ETA: DH and I were talking and I was really thinking about this. I wasn't just going to try to keep a male to better Atlas, but to keep in case something unexpected happened to Atlas. In view of that, I think I'll just keep #2 for now and rehome #1 and #3. That way, if something happened to my big sweet Atlas and at the time, I had no eggs to hatch, at least I would not be breeder-less. I'll keep Athena, of course, and decide about the small #4 later.

...and in case you aren't thoroughly bored already, more pictures. While Atlas was free ranging, I let them into his pen. They loved the roost.

 

[1muttsfan]

Honestly when you said something-I know i read it wrong!- about selling Atlas I just

 

[1muttsfan]

Anyway, nothing wrong with hatching our some more. I think your solution is completely reasonable, #2 is a nice looking guy and you would likely feel fine about him if you did not have the freaky giant boy to compare him to.

I wondered if the guy in group 2 was smallish - hard to tell from picture.

 

[speckledhen]

Honestly when you said something-I know i read it wrong!- about selling Atlas I just

That was weariness talking, I guess, sorry, lost my head. He is such a good guy, flaws or not, and he does produce some nice daughters.

Anyway, nothing wrong with hatching our some more. I think your solution is completely reasonable, #2 is a nice looking guy and you would likely feel fine about him if you did not have the freaky giant boy to compare him to.

I wondered if the guy in group 2 was smallish - hard to tell from picture.

I agree, just having Mr. Tank-Boy, only to have him with a comb issue, did mess with my perspective. Thanks for your input, I really do need it! As my husband just said, he doesn't care about breeding, only about eating eggs, so this part is all on me. But, if I don't have at least one rooster, I can't replenish my layers without going outside to other sources every single time.

Yes, even my husband said he thought the pair with Ida seemed younger; they're smaller than the first batch was two weeks ago, except for that super-nicely barred one. In two weeks, we'll see how he looks, but I can't imagine he'll be any better than my #2 guy then, he feathered out so fast.