The first WINTER - ventilation, heating?

[RonP]

Why I heat – the human body can survive 40 degree temps without going into hyperthermia – but at 39 degrees we will go in to hyperthermia within 24hrs. And we know if we keep our homes at 40 degrees not only is it miserably cold but we will get sick. Most chickens will SURVIVE cold temps just as we can at 40 degrees. When it is miserably cold they can’t get rest because they are constantly shuffling and squirming trying to get warm/comfortable, like we would do. And like us lack of rest weakens the immune system. Then they usually wind up developing respiratory issues/pneumonia – like we would at 40 degrees. Then just like we do when we get sick – they have to have antibiotics.And also if the comb starts getting frost bit – it’s because the system is cutting off the blood supply there, so it can “attend to” more important parts of the body for survival – like our systems do when our fingers and toes start getting frost’ bite. I personally like to go to bed at night knowing my girls are comfortable and not at risk of getting sick. Besides that, there’s usually that “outcast” hen that the others reject and she can’t “cuddle” with anyone to stay warm.
We keep the heat between 35 and 40 degrees. We clean poo out every other day, to keep ammonia/moisture issues under control. And didn’t build the house “air tight” so they would have air circulation even if we need to close vents when it is real windy. We also cover the walls only around the roost with old paneling in winter(we remove it in summer) to prevent “extreme drafts” where they sleep,And we make sure they get lots of scratch feed at night before bed – it has lots of carbs which encourages the system to produce heat. Everyone has their own preferences , this is ours.

Just as humans are at 65F, science has proven cold hardy birds are "comfortable" at ambient temperatures -20F. No opinion here.

There are situations where added heat is desirable.

Do you have fragile, weak, or sick birds?

Just how cold does it get where you are???

Are contingencies in place should a power failure occur?

 

[EagleEyes]

Very interesting thread. but I have to say, that like a TON of folks on here, this is my first winter, and my chickens have taught me a bunch. I don't care how cold it is, they want to come out and play. Snow is not there favorite thing. No heat here, and good ventilation in the coop.

 

[Brennigan]

Just as humans are at 65F, science has proven cold hardy birds are "comfortable" at ambient temperatures -20F. No opinion here.

There are situations where added heat is desirable.

Do you have fragile, weak, or sick birds?

Just how cold does it get where you are???

Are contingencies in place should a power failure occur?

I always think of Little Women or Little House on the Prairie or Anne of Green Gables...you know, historical situations. Everyone had livestock and no electricity! How did they survive?!

 

[Rani]

I think it's fine to not heat your coops. There seems to be too much risk of fire with heating. I am not "really" heating my coop. Disclaimer - this is my first winter and I'm new to all of this.

When I think about the pioneers, or my grandfather and his family on the frigid prairie of North Dakota, there are two things I consider. The chickens were often in the barn with other animals which helped to keep things warm. Also, they did not own 3 or 4 chickens but dozens of chickens. That many chickens would probably put out a bit of heat when clustered together. Losing one or two through the winter would not be felt as hard was losing one of four.

That being said - the chickadees and the juncos do just fine as long as they have a food source.

THAT being said - it doesn't mean that when the temps get very very low for their particular region - that this doesn't stress the birds. And stressing an animal can lead to sickness, weakness and death. That has also been scientifically proven.

I only have four hens. If I loose one to illness, I loose a quarter of my tiny flock. In my little hen house, when it's -6 F outside, it's about 0-3 F inside the house. They are not producing a lot of heat. If I filled that house to capacity (8 I think), I imagine there would be no problem with heat. (humidity, yes) I have straw bales around the coop and a 10 inch layer of straw in the hen house. They are sluggish and quiet on those extremely chilly mornings.

Will they be fine? Sure. Probably. People have had chickens for centuries. But I broke and jerry-rigged a heat lamp in the corner of the coop. When it drops to sub-zero - I switch it on and the house stays in the teens. (I have one of those remote temp gauge thingies) The hens seem very happy in those temps. At 12 F - they are happy and making healthy noises, eating and ranging out of the run as far as I've spread straw for their feet. At 6 F. They are moving little - fluffed and quiet.

One more thought - there may also be a big difference (when we are all talking about cold) when we throw in humidity. I can't speak for other regions, but here in Minnesota, it can be very cold with humidity in the 70-80% range. What do you think?

I do think there are valid arguments to support both sides.

Word,
Rani

 

[EagleEyes]

I agree, there are valid arguments to support each side, but I'm a KISS kind of guy. so I'm supplying no heat to my chickens, but do heat the water, in keeping with the KISS theory. I'm a retired guy and have time on my side. MNy girls LOVE me, well at least my treats. hahaha.
As far as cold, they love to come out no matter how cold, as long as they don't have to walk on snow.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Apples to Oranges......
......chickens aren't humans....and humans don't wear custom grown down coats 24/7.
But every keeper must do what ever makes them feel comfortable in their minds.

Quote:

You have your reasons as to why you don't heat - that's fine - but in my opinion frost bite is painful for ANYTHING to endure - so I do what I can to prevent it from becoming an issue - we all do what we think is best for our girls/roos - no reason to get snotty

I failed to read anything snotty in aart's response. Would you be so kind to point out what you found offensive?
Unless you find it snotty when someone with knowledge of the subject disagrees with your perspective and responds to your position in a concise and succinct manner.

It really is an apples to oranges comparison.

Once homo sapiens left the warmth of the horn of Africa, they adapted to colder climates by fashioning clothing. I couldn't take 40 F for very long if naked but if I dress for the weather, I can survive a long time well below zero.

Chickens, on the other hand, are of the order of birds called galliformes. Further delineated into the family phasianoidea, which includes pheasant, partridge, turkey, quail, peafowl and the ancestor of modern chickens, the jungle fowl. Gallinaceous birds evolved to adapt to climates with cold winters as far back as the Eocene period some 50 million years ago. They do so as weather cools by increasing plumage, lowering their activity levels to conserve energy and modifying their omnivorous diet to a strategy more akin to ruminants.

The name, red jungle fowl, may make one think that they are adapted to a warm climate but their native range extends to more montane regions including the Himalayan foothills. Chickens were domesticated from jungle fowl about 8,000 years ago. Since that time, they've made it to all corners of the globe and have further adapted. Pick a breed that people keep today and a large percentage were developed in temperate regions where winters can be harsh.
Some were developed many centuries ago in places as far flung as Chile, Continental Europe, New England, Canada, Russia and Nordic countries. All are areas with quite cold winters. I'm sure they weren't heating coops in those places in the 1700s. In fact, they may not have had coops at all.

For that matter, how do ptarmigans (same family and known in North America as the 'snow chicken') survive in the arctic tundra with no heat lamps?

Kept more naturally, they are able to adapt as the seasons cool.

Coddled, they'll never be able to acclimate to the winter climate. Kept warm at night and turned out into a cold frigid wind is very stressful. Heaven forbid, one has a power outage.
Frostbite is painful, but well managed birds don't get frostbite.

 

[donrae]

I'm also a KISS girl.

Humans get clothes and fire.

Animals get dry, draft free housing when they chose to utilize it. They have the choice to go out in the weather whenever they choose. Plenty of good quality feed and water.

This makes it easy for me. Otherwise, where would I stop? The chickens get heat....how about the barn cats? Then what about the horses? Then do I run a light clear out to the pigs? It would be madness

, madness I say!

" Repeat after me.....Us....Them" *




* a free Easter egger cockerel to anyone who knows the movie that's from

 

[rannug]

Apples to Oranges......
......chickens aren't humans....and humans don't wear custom grown down coats 24/7.
But every keeper must do what ever makes them feel comfortable in their minds.

x2 I considered the heat/no heat situation quite seriously. The deciding factor for me was that chickens have been arround 5, 10, 30, whatever, thousand years without any
external heat source. They are doing better than me. And who hasn't jumped a grouse or pheasant @ 0 degrees?

 

[donrae]

Apples to Oranges......
......chickens aren't humans....and humans don't wear custom grown down coats 24/7.
But every keeper must do what ever makes them feel comfortable in their minds.

x2 I considered the heat/no heat situation quite seriously. The deciding factor for me was that chickens have been arround 5, 10, 30, whatever, thousand years without any
external heat source. They are doing better than me. And who hasn't jumped a grouse or pheasant @ 0 degrees?

How about while riding a horse that's already feeling skittery cause of the crisp cold, then a pheasant breaks right out from under you? Impromptu rodeo

 

[MeepBeep]

Coddled, they'll never be able to acclimate to the winter climate. Kept warm at night and turned out into a cold frigid wind is very stressful.

So riddle me this, if you have a high chicken to cubic footage ratio in a small coop and their own 'body' heat, heats that small coop at say 35° overnight, what is the difference if you heat a larger coop that isn't as densely populated to 35°?

Do you monitor the temp in your coop? Is there some hypothetical temperature during the winter where you open more doors and windows because your chickens are giving off 'too much' heat overnight and you dont' want them to get 'stressed' in the morning when the coop is openned?

Or consider this, a chicken gives off about 15W of heat... So riddle me this, what is the amount of heat introduced in a coop containing 10+1 chickens vs a coop containing 1 chicken + a 150W heat source? Please explain the logic that concludes that the 150W of heat given off by the 10 chickens and enjoyed by the +1 chicken in the first coop is somehow different then 150W of heat given off by another heat source and enjoyed by the 1 chicken in the second coop?

To be blunt when you argue black and white logic against heat in a coop you start to dig yourself into a hole of contradictory logic and fact about heating as chickens themselves are factually heating the coop... Depending on chicken density in a coop their own heat could realistically be more heat than an artificial heat source in another coop, and that alone puts a big illogical and contradicting twist on many of the arguments used against heating...

Heaven forbid, one has a power outage.

Because, never in nature does the temp drop suddenly from day to day? Can't say what happens in your area but going from say 40° or 50° one day (or even during the day) to freezing temps the next (or night) is far from uncommon where I live, in fact it happens quite regularly this time of year... In fact it happened this last weekend, both days were near 60° during the day and fell to below freezing at night... Same could be said for it going from moderate freezing temps to extreme negatives within hours, again not an uncommon occurrence, it happened several times last year... I know this first hand as I was out there moving snow that had fallen a few hours earlier when it was about 30° all the while within that few hours time it had dropped to -10° with 40MPH winds because a 'polar vortex' plunged into our area...

I continue to see lots of hyperbole and scare 'what ifs' against heating... And although there might be some factual basis in those claims it's far from the black and white serious threat many would like to claim or believe...

Also there is a world of difference from mildly heating a coop and taking out the nip from the air and heating it to some 'warm' temp, as shown above mild and moderate heat is honestly no different than raising the bird density in many cases...

If one chooses not to heat (or heat) that is certainly your choice to make, but again to be blunt there are pros and cons to both choices and one should make an educated decision weighing in their unique circumstance... The answer is far from black and white even though many insist it is...

In general with healthy, cold hearty breeds, in your backyard coop heating is not advised as the cons generally out weigh the pros, but that is only a generalization there are many instances where that generalization simply does not apply and the pros weigh heavy towards heating...