The Front Porch Swing

[Ms Jellybean]

They have a new one out that only needs like 100 or so hours of frost or whatever. I think it's under 45 degrees. Google for cherry trees for zone 8. That's you too. Right?

That is me. I have read about the cherries for this area. I have also read that they still won't do well here. Our soil (I use that term loosely) is bad at best and it gets so hot here in the summer. I'll check again though. I wish I could grow Rainer cherries.

Okay, so am I crazy? Wait....let me rephrase the question - is THIS crazy? There, that's better. If I've learned anything on the Porch it's not to leave myself wide open like that!

Anyway, we put the chickens out a few days ago. It's still cold out there and the thought of leaving my nice warm house to go out and do m' chores is a drag. BUT, I put on my coop shoes and go out and do it. And I find I'm enjoying taking care of the chickens so much more with them being outside. That strikes me as a little odd - seems it would be more pleasant to remain warm, clean up after them, feed and water them, and check on them frequently when they're in the nice warm house with me. That hasn't proven to be the case. I like going out and replenishing the feeder, refilling the water, opening the door and letting them out, and watching them as they come out to greet the day. Yes, I definitely have inside housework I could be doing. Yes, I'm cold. Until I get a better water system going I tend to slop the water on my pant leg on the way to the coop. But I'm enjoying this so much more than when they were in the brooder. Is that NORMAL????

I think you have a fever. Spring fever. Maybe combined with Cabin Fever.

 

[Beekissed]

I think it is important to be able to reach straight down into nest boxes to gather the eggs. I'm not as nimble as I used to be. That squatting and reaching forward and straining to see through my glasses at weird angles thing really messes me up.

Me too! I think convenience and utility are important for a coop for the older crowd....we are only getting older, so we will need it more and more as time goes along. I like a good visual on my nests and I know chickens love it dark and private, so outside access gives me the best of both worlds...I get to open the nest and get good light when I put my hand in there and when the door is closed they feel like they are hidden. Win/win

Katy , the female GP, has had no training at 5 years old. I know it is going to take a lot of work, but she is sweet. Very stubborn though. They are smart and when the cows come and she has a job think that will help. She is bored. I know you can work with this boy. They are such great dogs. Guess we will be training dogs together.

This fella said the cows hate his dog and that's one reason he has him tied up because the cows attack him and roll him when he is in the field. Maybe he is chasing and barking? I'll have to see. I know my Lucy didn't like cows and was scared to death of them and of horses, so each of them are different.

When you say your dog is stubborn, what does she do or not do that lets you know that? Do you think that will make it harder to train her?

If this dog is a fool, shows too many stubborn traits and cannot take a correction, it will be likely we won't bring him home. I have to think about Mom and the chickens...but mostly Mom. Can't have an 85 lb dog jumping up on her or running from us and not coming when called. It will all come down to how much training he actually needs and if I feel like he is worthy of the training.

I hope he is a good one and we can trade training stories! Eli really wants us to get him because he really wants to find a place in the country to rent that is closer to work and where he can have a dog. He really misses having a dog and so many rental places won't allow them nor have the room for them.

Okay, so am I crazy? Wait....let me rephrase the question - is THIS crazy? There, that's better. If I've learned anything on the Porch it's not to leave myself wide open like that!

Anyway, we put the chickens out a few days ago. It's still cold out there and the thought of leaving my nice warm house to go out and do m' chores is a drag. BUT, I put on my coop shoes and go out and do it. And I find I'm enjoying taking care of the chickens so much more with them being outside. That strikes me as a little odd - seems it would be more pleasant to remain warm, clean up after them, feed and water them, and check on them frequently when they're in the nice warm house with me. That hasn't proven to be the case. I like going out and replenishing the feeder, refilling the water, opening the door and letting them out, and watching them as they come out to greet the day. Yes, I definitely have inside housework I could be doing. Yes, I'm cold. Until I get a better water system going I tend to slop the water on my pant leg on the way to the coop. But I'm enjoying this so much more than when they were in the brooder. Is that NORMAL????

It's completely normal! They are finally being natural chickens and no longer are "babies" that stink, make a mess, cause you trouble and work but are now lovely chickens in a lovely coop doing what chickens are supposed to do. That makes all the world of difference.

I love chicken chores and I feel a bond between me and the animals when I do them...it's so funny because they even know I am hurting in my back and when they follow me to the coop they are moving slower, will stop when I stop and it's almost like they are heeling like a well trained dog.

They are being so patient and gentle with me and that's so very funny. No more running ahead and stampeding to the coop ahead of me to be the first to the trough...it's kind of sweet!

I think it has more to do with how much they need you now as opposed to when they were in a nice, warm house just being fed and watered....now they need tending. They need you more and it's a good thing to be needed.

External nest boxes won't need a slanted board over them to prevent roosting. DUH, DIANE! External was what we planned from the start. I don't even know why I said I hadn't decided yet. Well, guess it's because I'd just washed my fingers and couldn't do a thing with them.

Oh, Blooie!! You are so refreshingly funny!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

External nest boxes won't need a slanted board over them to prevent roosting. DUH, DIANE! External was what we planned from the start. I don't even know why I said I hadn't decided yet. Well, guess it's because I'd just washed my fingers and couldn't do a thing with them.

In the center section of my coop I have a double row of roosts running down each length ... it's at about 3 1/2 feet off the ground. We hung the roosts ... which are 2 x 4 boards, wides sides for roosts ... from the roof supports so the birds (and the humans) can work the bedding under the roosts more easily. That's the background info.

Some of our external nest boxes open into the coop right under those roosts. It is only marginally possible to gather eggs from inside the coop in those boxes ... But that's okay with me.

Okay, so am I crazy? Wait....let me rephrase the question - is THIS crazy? There, that's better. If I've learned anything on the Porch it's not to leave myself wide open like that!

Anyway, we put the chickens out a few days ago. It's still cold out there and the thought of leaving my nice warm house to go out and do m' chores is a drag. BUT, I put on my coop shoes and go out and do it. And I find I'm enjoying taking care of the chickens so much more with them being outside. That strikes me as a little odd - seems it would be more pleasant to remain warm, clean up after them, feed and water them, and check on them frequently when they're in the nice warm house with me. That hasn't proven to be the case. I like going out and replenishing the feeder, refilling the water, opening the door and letting them out, and watching them as they come out to greet the day. Yes, I definitely have inside housework I could be doing. Yes, I'm cold. Until I get a better water system going I tend to slop the water on my pant leg on the way to the coop. But I'm enjoying this so much more than when they were in the brooder. Is that NORMAL????

I think it is NORMAL for you to feel more content with having the chickens outdoors because the chickens are no doubt a lot more content and you are absorbing their mood. It has to feel a lot more "right." I like that you are a person who is sensitive to "right" ... and that you don't seem to need to fight against it.

For me, so much of tending the chickens is absorbing what it is they are communicating to me ... however that happens is not always intelligible ... but I tend to explain it to people by saying the chickens "gossip." There are always some bird that cannot wait to come near me and talk talk talk. But really, I can look out my kitchen window and "know" there is something "not right" with the flock. They way they move as a flock, the sounds they make ... I get some very clear & specific messages ... it's weird, but I go with it.

This last time it was one bird that needed to be removed from the flock. One bird out of ... what? ... 110? ... was causing the others to be less content ... and I could tell exactly which bird was the source of the friction ... I knew that one bird had to go. It's gone now ... contentment has been restored. At least for now.

Even Dad, who isn't the most "sensitive" person to the needs & feelings of others ... he picked up on how totally joyous the birds were the other day when we opened the gates to their run and let them free-range. He'd been really reluctant to do this even though we've been talking about it for ages. Then the other day it was sunny and the back gate got open somehow and he decided to just go with it an open the front gate, too ... and then he stood still in the middle of the flock all making happy noises and all puffed up and scratching and the roosters acting silly all around him ... Dad is NOT someone you catch standing still very often, has no patience for smelling roses or watching sunsets or listening ... he got choked up and said, "They sound so HAPPY."

Now he understands the birds need more space. That's major.

Being around happiness is uplifting. Even "chores" can be "fun" once we connect with the contentments those chores allow.

 

[LindaB220]

In the center section of my coop I have a double row of roosts running down each length ... it's at about 3 1/2 feet off the ground. We hung the roosts ... which are 2 x 4 boards, wides sides for roosts ... from the roof supports so the birds (and the humans) can work the bedding under the roosts more easily. That's the background info.

Some of our external nest boxes open into the coop right under those roosts. It is only marginally possible to gather eggs from inside the coop in those boxes ... But that's okay with me.

I think it is NORMAL for you to feel more content with having the chickens outdoors because the chickens are no doubt a lot more content and you are absorbing their mood. It has to feel a lot more "right." I like that you are a person who is sensitive to "right" ... and that you don't seem to need to fight against it.

For me, so much of tending the chickens is absorbing what it is they are communicating to me ... however that happens is not always intelligible ... but I tend to explain it to people by saying the chickens "gossip." There are always some bird that cannot wait to come near me and talk talk talk. But really, I can look out my kitchen window and "know" there is something "not right" with the flock. They way they move as a flock, the sounds they make ... I get some very clear & specific messages ... it's weird, but I go with it.

This last time it was one bird that needed to be removed from the flock. One bird out of ... what? ... 110? ... was causing the others to be less content ... and I could tell exactly which bird was the source of the friction ... I knew that one bird had to go. It's gone now ... contentment has been restored. At least for now.

Even Dad, who isn't the most "sensitive" person to the needs & feelings of others ... he picked up on how totally joyous the birds were the other day when we opened the gates to their run and let them free-range. He'd been really reluctant to do this even though we've been talking about it for ages. Then the other day it was sunny and the back gate got open somehow and he decided to just go with it an open the front gate, too ... and then he stood still in the middle of the flock all making happy noises and all puffed up and scratching and the roosters acting silly all around him ... Dad is NOT someone you catch standing still very often, has no patience for smelling roses or watching sunsets or listening ... he got choked up and said, "They sound so HAPPY."

Now he understands the birds need more space. That's major.

Being around happiness is uplifting. Even "chores" can be "fun" once we connect with the contentments those chores allow.

Oh Leslie, that makes me want to cry (tears of joy). I put my babies in a dog crate and carried it over to the door to let the sunshine on them for the first time. It was wonderful watching their little faces strain back and forth to SEE nature. Then the little rascals started going threw the sides of the crate and I had to scramble to get them back to their brooder. Got to finish their coop. They are so ready to go out.

 

[Beekissed]

Amen, LJ! You explained that far better than I ever could! And I'm so happy that your dad finally "gets" it. Chickens being natural chickens out on the grass is so elemental to me...it does have a spiritual rightness to it and you can feel their contentedness, more than see it. Many are just not attuned to that or to animals at all....my mother is one of those. She is not super sensitive to the subtle nuances of the animal world but I seem to have been gifted with it and it grows and grows the older I get.

I don't need to pet or cuddle my animals to know or feel their level of contentment...that's something you can feel in the air around them, in the way their body moves and the sounds they make. That the animals gravitate towards me when I go outdoors seems to have more to do with a feeling of wanting to be near the leader than it does with bucket love. A sense of security and the mutual enjoyment we have of just being....being content all in one space and area. We don't even need to interact to feel that partnership...they feel better when I am there and I feel better because they are there. I can sit out in a chair in the yard and everyone wants to lay down, sit or stand near me...it's always been that way. The boys call me Ace Ventura.

I think I've seen this in many an old farmer and they are not an affectionate sort of people towards their animals...but they just know when the cows are content or restless or nervous. Some even will caution folks about going near the cows because they know strangers make their cows nervous and they don't like to cause even that little bit of stress to the animals. Some farmers don't have that intuitiveness with their animals and those are the ones you see yelling and cushing their animals at the stock sales, banging them around with the gates and such.

Others come in and it's a quiet thing...they gently prod the cows off the truck and the cows are more quiet, more calm and the farmer is more deliberate in his body movements and doesn't have to yell. That's a guy tuned into his animals.

 

[Blooie]

Thanks! I do feel a contentment that I didn't feel with them before. I knew if I came to the Porch and put my feet up for a bit, and tried to explain what I was feeling, you guys would "get it". It's sure easier to pick up on individual personalities emerging in the chickens now that they're in the coop as well. Jane the Evil has become Jane the Explorer. I think the only thing wrong with her before was that she was overcrowded, she saw me as a threat when I would come it to take her away from her brooder, and she had no where to escape from me. Fight or flight, I guess. I've not had one problem with her or Rose and Charlie since they went outside.

The two little Sussex, a good 2 weeks younger than the rest, were the first to get up on the roost last night, and they loved it up there. The others quickly followed, but if I hadn't seen this happen, I would still be thinking of them as the "babies" and not realizing that they are pretty inquisitive, bold little chickens who just happen to be smaller. Gladys the EE and one of the little Speckled Sussex are inseparable...if you see one, you see them both. Gladys is so patient with her - letting her snuggle close and (here I KNOW I'm going to sound crazy) when I tossed some treats out this morning Gladys found some, made some kind of weird, quiet sound that was almost like a growl, and the little one ran right over to her and they nibbled on the veggies together. I could swear that Gladys was telling her, "Over here, sweetie..."

I've learned a lot about overcrowding in the brooder. I know I got lucky - no feather, eye, or toe pecking and a few bumping chests contests was as physical as they got with each other. I learned that it would be so easy to give up on keeping chickens forever with chicks packed in like sardines......there's no place for them to go to get way from each other, the additional work to keep the brooder clean is awful, but clean it has to be or the stench and moon dust very quickly becomes unbearable. When a person isn't prepared for that it would be so easy to give up - to say, "I can't do this! This is more hassle and unpleasantness than it's worth." I learned that they can't learn to do "chicken things" when they aren't allowed to be chickens. And 99% of my water tipping issues was because they were so big that they'd crowd around it and in the pushing and shoving they'd knock it over. That was entirely my fault, first of all because the brooder was too small, second because I didn't exercise any self control and only get the number of chicks that I as a total beginner could handle, and third, I tried over think everything else.

So maybe, just maybe, it was a good thing that I started out so wrong with them and they thrived despite my mistakes. I have seen first hand and quickly that the chick raising is the hard part if you let it be the hard part, and I know that not all of the answers to my difficulties can be found on BYC. Many of them yes, but there's no point asking a question when you know full well that the answer is going to be the same from all of those who respond, "You are stupid. Your chicks are going to die. You don't have enough room for that many." Can't get irritated because they would be right, even if that response didn't answer my initial question. I'd love to stand beside the chick displays at the feed stores when an impeccably groomed and dressed Mommy and Daddy are in with their beautiful little children, choosing chicks on the spur of the moment because they are "so cute". I'd like to show them pictures of the dust. I'd like to tell them, "That waterer will cause you no end of grief trying to keep it upright and clean, so don't buy the ones they want to sell you here, make your own." I'd like to say, "Do NOT bring home those chicks unless you are prepared for total commitment to their well being well past the fluffy stage, and made doggone sure your coop is ready first, not as an afterthought."

So now the chickens are outside being chickens and I'm inside. I can get them fed, watered, maybe turn over the litter, let them out, and I can sit down and maybe get another block done on my quilt or write another chapter for my book, which has been sadly neglected, before it's time to go out and put them in for the night. And when the sun is shining on Agatha's pretty feathers, it's a sight to see.

 

[Beekissed]

Amen! Truer words were never spoken, Blooie. That post right there should be a sticky on the top of the chick forum and it's something I've been preaching for 6 long years now. Preparation and realistic expectations of chicks and their needs as they grow is so incredibly important to the whole process of obtaining livestock. Impulse buying seems to lead to stress of the humans and the animals and it's a horrible way to be introduced into flock keeping.

I'm glad yours all worked out so well but I've read many, many posts on here that do not work out so well and finally one just has to avoid those types of posts because it's like a red flag to old chickeners and makes them want to shake folks. There's an easy way to do something and there's a hard way.....folks want to say there is no "right way" to do this or that, but they cannot deny that easy beats hard every single day and twice on Sunday.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

"I" started out with way too many birds. I say "I" because I feel completely responsible even though "I" was not the one pressing for so many birds.

I already knew that some people like to acquire things but are not at all good at "having" things. What I learned was that some people can see animals as "things." Part of my soul died when I learned that.

Blooie is right ... it isn't "helpful" when you come to BYC looking for information on how to cope with a bird situation and instead of getting information about that you get scolded and criticized on a personal level. Well ... I suppose doing the scolding and criticizing somehow "helps" the people who pounce on any opportunity to scold & criticize, but that seems very, very beside the point to me.

I don't think anybody honest is ever going to say "I did it all perfectly from day one." But it does take a particularly generous person to share details of their learning curve with others. Many of us are here to learn, and still have a lot of gaps in what we know. It is lovely to be teachable.

 

[Beekissed]

It is! When you lose that, you are dead in the water. That's why I put all my "experiments" into print here....so we can all learn together. I have no idea if they will succeed or fail, I have no idea if I will end up with egg on my face...but I don't care. What I care about is the learning. What I can learn from others who weigh in on the subject, how many others join the experiment so they can experience different aspects of the same thing that maybe I wouldn't get to experience at my place and then the learning that can happen as others read along and learn from our mistakes.

Look at the FF threads...look at how many people tried it and have improved on it and how much we have learned from all the research that folks have done and what we can do with that simple step in our feed routine. I had no idea that this would work out in this way and that I would still be using FF two years later. It's the trying and failing that starts the learning. Success doesn't always teach us much.

 

[Triple Willow]

Amen to that! I'm still learning!