The Front Porch Swing

[lazy gardener]

AIV? For wintertime dried fodder, if in an area where it grows well, alfalfa would be a great treat. You might also want to look into Comfrey, specifically Bocking #4. Regular comfrey is very invasive, but the #4 is sterile, supposed to be very high in protein. #14 is reputed to be better for compost additive. Both have very deep root systems and are expert at mining minerals from the deeper soil layers. Sprouts are a great winter time feed. I have started 2 Siberian Pea Shrubs. One of them is now putting on some good growth. They're both spending the summer in pots b/c I need to get some land cleared before putting them in their final resting place. There's also a potted apricot, 2 cherries, 2 elderberries to keep them company. I'd like to create an island of chicken friendly shrubs and plantings for their free range browsing.

 

[LadyCluck77]

Lady Cluck:  You need a little butterfly net.  You chase the bird into a corner set up with chicken wire, and drop the net over his head.  He'll never know what hit him!!!

I'm hoping that some of this year's hatch will lay olive eggs.  They are black sex links produced from EE x PBR.  Pretty little birds with dainty little combs.

Those sound great ! I love smaller combs for our cold winters. So much less chance for frostbite. This winter was particularly cold, too.

We finally caught them all and got them settled into their new much larger home. They seem to like it. We had to chase them all down one by one, so I got my exercise last night for sure. I don't mind because I wound up making homemade cinnamon rolls, so I needed to burn it off.

I'm not planning to caponize this batch, they are absolutely too old, and I do understand and respect the controversy. Thank you everyone for the discussion on the matter. It's definitely something I need to research a whole lot more. That's why it's so great to hear what people think and read up on all the information.

 

[bruceha2000]

I'm really happy, so I'll post here too, hopefully no one is on too many of the same threads that I'm on and has to read the same news over and over.

Finally our third Finnish landrace Alho started laying today, she made a nice 36g egg! I was wondering why Viiru was acting so grumpy when I tried to shoo her off the nest in fear of her going broody when she was sitting on an egg and a golfball, but apparently I had mistaken Virpi's egg for hers.

What size do you expect them to lay when they are more mature?

Ok guys, how do you make chili? Does this look about right?

I had some left over chopped onions, paprika and tomatoes, so I decided to combine them with some canned kidney beans in chili-tomato sauce and minced meat.

You can't really do chili wrong because there are a bazillion opinions and recipes. There are some that will tell you that REAL chili NEVER has beans in it. And some will say if it doesn't grow hair on your chest, it isn't spicy enough. Or if it doesn't peel the hair OFF your chest, it isn't spicy enough. Me, I'm more like Karin I guess, not big into HOT. Add some fresh cilantro to it and it will taste great, unless you are one of the people for whom cilantro tastes like soap.

Yeah, it was a pretty nice size at 36g. Nothing compared to today's whopper from Veera though, 47g!

Woot! All the way up in the USDA Small range

I think corn is grown on a total area of about 400 hectares in Finland at the moment (about 1000 acres), so we don't really use all that much corn. It's not used in livestock feeding at all, and pretty much the only widespread uses are corn porridge for babies, and whole cobs of corn (that are usually sold precooked) grilled in the summer. Most of the stuff used for that is imported, as the corn fields are mostly in experimental stages still. Barley is the most grown crop around here (we make a lot of beer

).

I'm sorry but precooked corn on the cob is, well, why bother???

Well, seems Karin really has a magical ability of making firsts happen by going away. Now we'e had two new layers come online this weekend. Got a lovely 48g olive egg today, I can't believe that little bird pushed out such a huge egg.

She did crack it though, as she exited the nest about half a minute too early and dropped it on the edge of the pop door to the coop.

If I get one that is cracked AND the membrane isn't broken AND it isn't dirty, it goes right in the refrigerator and eaten as soon as we need an egg. Otherwise, the chickens get scrambled egg for breakfast. Fortunately I've not had too many that were broken before I got to them (and not TOO many that were broken after I got to them

)

Deb, you seem to have a firm grasp on these feed issues. What are your thoughts on collecting leaves in summertime, and drying them to use as a source of greens in winter? Karin read about this, and we decided to try it out. We just gathered half an Ikea bag full of mainly birch leaves straight off the trees. The idea is to utilize this heatwave for drying them quickly, gathering more each day, and then store them for winter in plastic trash sacks. We could of course do the AIV treatment on them as well, but that seems a bit too hardcore for a flock of 8.

If they have been dried, are they still "greens"??

 

[vehve]

Quote:

 

[vehve]

AIV? For wintertime dried fodder, if in an area where it grows well, alfalfa would be a great treat. You might also want to look into Comfrey, specifically Bocking #4. Regular comfrey is very invasive, but the #4 is sterile, supposed to be very high in protein. #14 is reputed to be better for compost additive. Both have very deep root systems and are expert at mining minerals from the deeper soil layers. Sprouts are a great winter time feed. I have started 2 Siberian Pea Shrubs. One of them is now putting on some good growth. They're both spending the summer in pots b/c I need to get some land cleared before putting them in their final resting place. There's also a potted apricot, 2 cherries, 2 elderberries to keep them company. I'd like to create an island of chicken friendly shrubs and plantings for their free range browsing.

AIV feed is feed stored with formic acid, the technique was developed by A.I. Virtanen in the 20's to ensure milk production through the winter. Gave Finland a competitive edge against the Estonians in supplying Great Britain with butter. We have quite a lot of dairy production related research here. Finland is the biggest per capita milk consumer in the world. Coffee too, which is strange. Finns usually like absolutely horrible light roasted coffee.

 

[perchie.girl]

Deb, you seem to have a firm grasp on these feed issues. What are your thoughts on collecting leaves in summertime, and drying them to use as a source of greens in winter? Karin read about this, and we decided to try it out. We just gathered half an Ikea bag full of mainly birch leaves straight off the trees. The idea is to utilize this heatwave for drying them quickly, gathering more each day, and then store them for winter in plastic trash sacks. We could of course do the AIV treatment on them as well, but that seems a bit too hardcore for a flock of 8.

I dont know really. Look into the food value of the leaves as well as any type of toxicity. The toxicity will increase with the drying process. I have had horses almost fifty years now and my background is horses and through osmosis ruminants. Horses being the most sensitive to feeds.

the experience I have says Alfalfa Chaff is an excellent dried source... almost a complete feed because of his high calcium content. It its also very high in protien as well as other minerals. The only thing it lacks is salt.

You can buy a pelleted form of Alfalfa here. Ranging in size from small pea sized all the way up to an extruded cube that is 1 x 1 inches and broken at various lengths. To give my chickens greens I choose to feed a flake off an Alfalfa horse bale. Chicken dietary process after that whole Gizzard deal is pretty similar to how horses digest food.

Because horses dont regurgitate their food and re masticate it the celulose has to be broken down some how. So after the stommach it goes into a porotion of the gut called the Cecum. There the flora and fauna take over the digestion process. THAT is the most susceptible part of the digestion. Antibiotics have been the cause of serious digestive issues with horses. Same goes for Certain Tree leaves... for instance

Black Walnut,
Red Maple
Cherry and Plum
Oak

Here is the write up...
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/12962/which-trees-are-toxic

The deal is you have to know the plant material that is around you in your area even micro climate. some leaves can be eaten fresh but not dried. Or some NEVER like Oleander.

Some where there is a list of plants that are poisonous to some degree to chickens... here on BYC.
Its a pretty comprehensive list
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/627282/comprehensive-list-of-poisonous-plants-and-trees

One Caveot.... while these are potentially toxic to them it varies the degree of toxins that are contained in the plant material. Some would have to be eaten to the extreme degree to cause issues. Usually they dont have a good taste and browsing amials will "nibble then spit or drop the feed out of their mouths"

For instance I was incredibly worried when i found Loco Weed on my property. Its known to cause all sorts of problems in horses and ruminants like Cows Sheep and Goats.
Below is a picture of Loco Weed. Yep on my property. When its green it has an appetizing appearance shiny green leaves and what looks like pea pods on it.... Each pod has about three seeds in it.

Toxic effects... Neurologic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locoweed

and its in the Pea family.... I did some reading and found that this particular one in the picture is only toxic if eaten in great quantities.... and is only palatable in the spring or fall when its growing actively. So when I have the opportunity to do some cross fencing on my property I will have the ability to eradicate it before putting horses or goats out there.

Read up on your local plant material... Grasses leaves even mosses and mushrooms.... Ferns as well. Plants that grow from bulbs too. Onions for example.... While mildly toxic to chickens and horses they usually dont persue them on their own.

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

AIV? For wintertime dried fodder, if in an area where it grows well, alfalfa would be a great treat. You might also want to look into Comfrey, specifically Bocking #4. Regular comfrey is very invasive, but the #4 is sterile, supposed to be very high in protein. #14 is reputed to be better for compost additive. Both have very deep root systems and are expert at mining minerals from the deeper soil layers. Sprouts are a great winter time feed. I have started 2 Siberian Pea Shrubs. One of them is now putting on some good growth. They're both spending the summer in pots b/c I need to get some land cleared before putting them in their final resting place. There's also a potted apricot, 2 cherries, 2 elderberries to keep them company. I'd like to create an island of chicken friendly shrubs and plantings for their free range browsing.

Kale is a great choice You can grow it alogside the chicken run and they will "graze the leaves" It can also be grown under a wire mesh that the chickens can walk on.

deb

 

[vehve]

Quote: Yeah, the thought is to keep to safe plants. My biggest concern though, is how much of the nutrients would be lost by drying the leaves? Do you have any thoughts on that? And thank you once again for a very detailed and thought out reply.

When it comes to toxic plants, we are pretty lucky though. There are very few of those around. One things I regret missing out on, was the nettle season. There are still some left, but they would have been a lot better earlier in the summer. Loads of nutrients in those. Both for animals and people.

 

[perchie.girl]

Yeah, the thought is to keep to safe plants. My biggest concern though, is how much of the nutrients would be lost by drying the leaves? Do you have any thoughts on that? And thank you once again for a very detailed and thought out reply.

When it comes to toxic plants, we are pretty lucky though. There are very few of those around. One things I regret missing out on, was the nettle season. There are still some left, but they would have been a lot better earlier in the summer. Loads of nutrients in those. Both for animals and people.

Safe for us is not necessarily safe for our animals.... sigh. Nutrients lost in drying will vary. Just like in all food preservation. I suspect if you use a food dehydrator or something similar to keep the leaves from molding before they desiccate you would preserve most of the nutritional value.

For instance I have never ever fed fresh Alfalfa... Its always been in its preserved form... Dried in the field to a certain percentage of moisture... sprayed with a preservative... I am thinking something similar to your AIV process... then baled in bales that can weigh up to 125 lbs. (baling in the US varies from state to state) Those bales when kept under the right conditions will retain their nutritive value for about eight months.

deb

 

[vehve]

Quote:

Yeah, the thought is to keep to safe plants. My biggest concern though, is how much of the nutrients would be lost by drying the leaves? Do you have any thoughts on that? And thank you once again for a very detailed and thought out reply.

When it comes to toxic plants, we are pretty lucky though. There are very few of those around. One things I regret missing out on, was the nettle season. There are still some left, but they would have been a lot better earlier in the summer. Loads of nutrients in those. Both for animals and people.

Safe for us is not necessarily safe for our animals.... sigh. Nutrients lost in drying will vary. Just like in all food preservation. I suspect if you use a food dehydrator or something similar to keep the leaves from molding before they desiccate you would preserve most of the nutritional value.

For instance I have never ever fed fresh Alfalfa... Its always been in its preserved form... Dried in the field to a certain percentage of moisture... sprayed with a preservative... I am thinking something similar to your AIV process... then baled in bales that can weigh up to 125 lbs. (baling in the US varies from state to state) Those bales when kept under the right conditions will retain their nutritive value for about eight months.

deb

I think we'll try this on a small scale, it would be nice to be able to provide some of the nutrients they will be missing in the winter. Don't worry, we'll be sure to double check the suitability as food for poultry of whatever we gather before throwing it in the mix.