The Genetics of Fibromelanosis in the Sikie and Ayam Cemani

[nicalandia]

Is it because of the gypsy face? or do they have other dermal/epi enchancers also? btw, what's the genetics for gypsy face?

Also thanks for rest of comment, I needed that reminder to myself of melanin expression, dermal/epidermal enchancers.

the Gypsy face is Trait(could be polygenic) that enhances the epidermis on these chickens, seems like Birchen does boost this abit more, but remember that Cemani birds may also have epidermal enhancers not just Dermal like Fm or id+, if you keep stacking them you will end up with the darkest one...


Also the mulberry face or Gypsy face can be found on other breeds, like the Sebright, the sebright genoe is ER/ER based and id+....











so if i had issues getting Full Black Faces on my Fibromelanotic stock i would start looking at gypsy faced birds to introduce that extra epidermal enhancer to make my birds as black as possible

Edit. Brown Red moder game Bantams show gypsy faces

 

[nicalandia]

This male shows the most melanized epidermal pigment I have seen, a male with this genetics would help creating the Blackest One..

 

[farmerChef]

I have a Sumatra hen in with my Cemani crosses. The Cemani crosses are a gold birchen/brown red color. I also recently added 3 blue hens of mixed/unknown parentage, they hatched from olive eggs, day was supposedly an Ameraucana/Faverolles cross with black skin. Hatched 11/12 eggs, only 3/5 pullets had dark skin, no males. 2 have pea combs, so maybe they will lay green eggs too.
I also have a few Jersey giant hens, I lost their rooster last fall to a coon, but they will be moved out soon, I'm getting a blue boy next weekend. Going to hatch out a few of these to help with size, the Cemani crosses are on the small side. My 2 roosters are about 6 months old, I also have an older rooster, just over a year, who's comb is a mulberry color.

Year old rooster

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Nice, I could see the Gypsy face Trait helping the Cemani black face, because you would need epidarmal and dermal melanosis to have the blackest birds

 

[RaNikki2]

Hi, I just found this forum tonight and am interested in learning more about this for a breed I'm developing. I don't know my chicken genetics very well, so could use a little help from someone who clearly does.
-Dana

 

[sharkman]

Hi, I just found this forum tonight and am interested in learning more about this for a breed I'm developing. I don't know my chicken genetics very well, so could use a little help from someone who clearly does.
-Dana

Tell us a little about your project and what you hope to develop.
Rob

 

[smoothmule]

I have enjoyed the conversation here and have a few poor quality Cemani. One has a good bit of silver in the neck hackles as a cockerel now so I'm thinking he is birchen based. His mouth is pale and just a couple of toenails but he's fair other wise. I have seen some very attractive FM that are Silver Duckwing so I will be working to make some FM, SDW Araucana's. I'm using the 2 SDW Araucana hens in another project at the moment, and my Cemani are not of breeding age yet anyway.

I do have a few Araucana's that are Gypsy Faced so I plan to use my only GF Araucana cockerel over the 2 SDW hens to start. I have read from others that Gypsy Faced and Birchen are at least, somewhat related. The hens are not GF'd but I do have some GF black Araucana hens as well so while the Cemani matures, I'll be crossing the GF cockerel to the SDW hens and GF hens. They're all Araucana's so there won't be many that are just culls and I have been interested in learning how GF to GF produced. Oddly, and it seems to be accepted by other Araucana breeders, the GF'd seem to produce a smaller, tighter, more correct pea comb so while they are not show quality to have a GF black comb, they are routinely used in the breeding pens to improve combs.

I have also read that the GF isn't "one" of the FM genes but it enhances the blackness in the face and comb. I see a lot of mulberry coloring in most of the Cemani combs so there is something lacking I think.

This is the cockerel I will be using. These photo's were taken at around 6 months and I am impressed with him over all as he has matured over the winter. He also has some melanosis on the soles of his feet that is unlike the other Araucana's. Only his mother could have passed this to him since all of my other Araucana males have not had any GF traits so I know he cannot be homozygous for this but I "am" hoping to see more than 50% GF chicks from the GF hens to him. I am also expecting them to be birchen looking in chick down and melanized.
Also, I am fairly certain that my birchen looking chick down chicks have had the darkest eye. Most of my "regular" Araucana cocks have bay to brown eyes, none as dark as this cockerel.

 

[CatalanState]

Someone has crossed a pure Ayam cemani roo over a black araucana hen?

 

[Wolfefarmyard]

Tim you are describing a Basic SexLinked Cross


The Male´s Genome would be E/E(Extended Black, but they could also be ER/ER Birchen) Fm1/Fm1(Fibromelanotic gene1) and Fm2/Fm2(Fibromelanotic gene2) id+/d+(wildtype sexlinked dermal melanin gene, need it for full expression of Fibromelanotic)

The Female´s Genome would be eWh/eWh(Wheaten) fm1+/fm1+(Marans dont carry Fm on any form) fm2+/fm2+ Id/-(Hemizygous Dominant Sexlinked Dermal Inhibitor)


Now this cross will produce 100% Sexlinked chicks,

The Females will inherit the id+/- Z-Linked from their father and since these F1 females would also be E/eWh Fm1/fm1+ and Fm2/fm2+ they would be Nearly as black as their Father, they would also be Sexable at hatch, the F1 females will ALL have black skin at hatch

the Males of this cross will inherit the Z-linked Id(dermal inhibitor sexlinked) gene from mother and one Z-linked id+ gene from father so that would make them Id/id+ it seems like Id is Nearly completely Dominant on this scenario, so the F1 males all of them will have white/yellow Skin at hatch making them sexable too(different from F1 sisters)..


My limited experience with Fibromelanotic birds was when I was trying to produce Cemani look alike with native fibromelanotic stock from Nicaragua and White Leghorns, and since I was only able to get Spent battery white Leghorn hens I had to cross a fibromelanotic male to the leghorns, producing 100% Sexable chicks at hatch, that was like 8 years ago,

Hello, I believe I've created a pretty spot on look a like. Please let me know if you want pictures.

 

[Pyxis]

Hello, I believe I've created a pretty spot on look a like. Please let me know if you want pictures.

An ayam cemani look-a-like? Sure, I'd like to see pictures. I'd also like to know what breeds you used.