The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[cmom]

Here's another "funny" thing or two about chicken breeding, just so folks better understand the bigger picture.

Let's say you go to a good, 4000 bird + show and buy the Best of Breed Red cockbird, right from the cage. Hey, not often, but yes, it has happened that BB birds get sold at the conclusion of the show. Then, let's also say you buy the RB female from the same breeder at the show and head home with this pair. Now, surely!!! You'd have the tiger by the tail for next year, right? I mean, how could you go wrong? You just bought the two best Reds from the show. Good for you.

Meanwhile, your neighbor also bought Reds at the same show. He went over to the sale aisle and bought a pair or trio from that same breeder. The breeder is selling off his culls and your neighbor buys a couple of those birds and it would appear obvious that they have a fault or two or at least they're quite as nice as the two birds you bought, but your neighbor is happy enough and his start with good Reds.

So next year you return to that same show with offspring. You've bathed them and conditioned them and they're looking pretty good in the show cage. Guess who might coop in next to you? On one side is that breeder from last year and on the other side is your neighbor with their birds hatched and raised out.

So, who's gonna be awarded Best of Breed this year? Who has a bird that might compete for Champion American? The honest answer? I don't know. We'll see. There simply are no assurances.

I have seen Champion Large fowl go to pot their sophomore year and sprout white feathers. I've seen Show Champion females moult back in with horrid feathers and ugly cushions. It happens. I've seen Champion cockbirds who never did throw a chick worth a darn. It happens. I've also seen people take cull birds from sale aisle and hatch out winning birds because there was good DNA in those culls birds and good birds got teased out.
These scenarios are admittedly a bit extreme to make a point, but there it is.

Should a beginner start with the very best birds he/she can? ABSOLUTELY. Agree totally, but please hear this.
No matter what you start with you're in for work and hopefully your hard work pays off down the line.

You have to enjoy the birds, make friends, enjoy the hobby and enjoy the shows. Have fun along the way. They're just chickens, remember? LOL Peace everyone and have a great weekend.

Well said...

 

[Ur-ur-ur-urrr]

Here's another "funny" thing or two about chicken breeding, just so folks better understand the bigger picture.

Let's say you go to a good, 4000 bird + show and buy the Best of Breed Red cockbird, right from the cage. Hey, not often, but yes, it has happened that BB birds get sold at the conclusion of the show. Then, let's also say you buy the RB female from the same breeder at the show and head home with this pair. Now, surely!!! You'd have the tiger by the tail for next year, right? I mean, how could you go wrong? You just bought the two best Reds from the show. Good for you.

Meanwhile, your neighbor also bought Reds at the same show. He went over to the sale aisle and bought a pair or trio from that same breeder. The breeder is selling off his culls and your neighbor buys a couple of those birds and it would appear obvious that they have a fault or two or at least they're quite as nice as the two birds you bought, but your neighbor is happy enough and his start with good Reds.

So next year you return to that same show with offspring. You've bathed them and conditioned them and they're looking pretty good in the show cage. Guess who might coop in next to you? On one side is that breeder from last year and on the other side is your neighbor with their birds hatched and raised out.

So, who's gonna be awarded Best of Breed this year? Who has a bird that might compete for Champion American? The honest answer? I don't know. We'll see. There simply are no assurances.

I have seen Champion Large fowl go to pot their sophomore year and sprout white feathers. I've seen Show Champion females moult back in with horrid feathers and ugly cushions. It happens. I've seen Champion cockbirds who never did throw a chick worth a darn. It happens. I've also seen people take cull birds from sale aisle and hatch out winning birds because there was good DNA in those culls birds and good birds got teased out.
These scenarios are admittedly a bit extreme to make a point, but there it is.

Should a beginner start with the very best birds he/she can? ABSOLUTELY. Agree totally, but please hear this.
No matter what you start with you're in for work and hopefully your hard work pays off down the line.

You have to enjoy the birds, make friends, enjoy the hobby and enjoy the shows. Have fun along the way. They're just chickens, remember? LOL Peace everyone and have a great weekend.

I don't see anything extreme about any of those statements... it's just the way it is. There will always be work to be done.

I only meant that if you start with a good bloodline with good genes, the work might not be quite as hard. A little head-start might make the difference between a new breeder becoming a successful breeder and a new breeder becoming discouraged and giving up. Personally, I couldn't care less whether my birds win ribbons. It's not about the prize... it's about the breed.

Well said...

+1.

 

[waddles99]

Has anyone ever heard of evieshotchicks in cookstown, nj? Well, she is mostly the reason I am in the mess I am in right now with my RIR being poor quality, and needing to find new ones ASAP. I was just starting out with show birds last September, and wanted to start with some RIR. I had kept them before from a hatchery, but this time wanted to try some nicer better quality ones. So I searched Craigslist(first mistake) and found someone selling heritage RIR. I thought this would be a great opportunity to get high quality birds from a nice breeder. Boy, was I about to find out that everything in that previous sentence was a lie. I was only a beginner and didn't know any better, but looking at the pictures from the ad now, I can see that these birds are some poor quality excuses for Heritage RIR. In the ad, it said "this is an old fashioned heritage stock and has that true dark mahogany color with the black and teal tail feathering". In hindsight, i don't know whether that sentence makes me mad or makes me laugh, because that could not be further from the truth. These birds are light as can be, almost like production reds, wrong tail angle, horrible skinny body type, and horrific combs. The seller of these birds blatantly lied to me about the quality of these birds, and took advantage of my noviceness to tell me that they were not only RIR, but "Heritage" as well. Calling these birds heritage is insulting to the birds that actually are.

The reason why I mention her is because she perfectly fits the description Fred's Hens was giving about how many people are merely "producers" and don't care about furthering the breed and breeding good birds, but rather churning out poor quality stock to make a quick buck. This woman is only doing it for the money, because the way she markets these birds and sells them is robbery. She kept talking about how much money you can make doing this, and how easy it is just churning out chicks and hatching eggs.....well obviously she doesn't know the first thing about real nice birds and doesn't care about breeding good stock. All she cares about is that she sells birds.

I guess it was a good learning experience and lesson. I really wish I hadn't wasted my time with those birds growing them out over the winter, but hey, I learned a lot. One, what to look for in a good bird, and two, not to trust people who churn out chicks and lie about their quality. Not everyone cares about the birds as everyone here does.

Needless to say, I am extremely displeased with evieshotchicks. If anyone here is near NJ, I would strongly advise you to stay away from that place. If you want hatchery quality birds, go to your local feed store.

 

[cmom]

Has anyone ever heard of evieshotchicks in cookstown, nj? Well, she is mostly the reason I am in the mess I am in right now with my RIR being poor quality, and needing to find new ones ASAP. I was just starting out with show birds last September, and wanted to start with some RIR. I had kept them before from a hatchery, but this time wanted to try some nicer better quality ones. So I searched Craigslist(first mistake) and found someone selling heritage RIR. I thought this would be a great opportunity to get high quality birds from a nice breeder. Boy, was I about to find out that everything in that previous sentence was a lie. I was only a beginner and didn't know any better, but looking at the pictures from the ad now, I can see that these birds are some poor quality excuses for Heritage RIR. In the ad, it said "this is an old fashioned heritage stock and has that true dark mahogany color with the black and teal tail feathering". In hindsight, i don't know whether that sentence makes me mad or makes me laugh, because that could not be further from the truth. These birds are light as can be, almost like production reds, wrong tail angle, horrible skinny body type, and horrific combs. The seller of these birds blatantly lied to me about the quality of these birds, and took advantage of my noviceness to tell me that they were not only RIR, but "Heritage" as well. Calling these birds heritage is insulting to the birds that actually are.

The reason why I mention her is because she perfectly fits the description Fred's Hens was giving about how many people are merely "producers" and don't care about furthering the breed and breeding good birds, but rather churning out poor quality stock to make a quick buck. This woman is only doing it for the money, because the way she markets these birds and sells them is robbery. She kept talking about how much money you can make doing this, and how easy it is just churning out chicks and hatching eggs.....well obviously she doesn't know the first thing about real nice birds and doesn't care about breeding good stock. All she cares about is that she sells birds.

I guess it was a good learning experience and lesson. I really wish I hadn't wasted my time with those birds growing them out over the winter, but hey, I learned a lot. One, what to look for in a good bird, and two, not to trust people who churn out chicks and lie about their quality. Not everyone cares about the birds as everyone here does.

Needless to say, I am extremely displeased with evieshotchicks. If anyone here is near NJ, I would strongly advise you to stay away from that place. If you want hatchery quality birds, go to your local feed store.

I totally agree with you and it happens everywhere. Many years ago when I was looking for some pure Rhode Island Reds, I fell for a craigslist ad too. I was looking for pure RIR birds and saw a Lake City craigslist ad. I was pretty stupid. I asked if I could see the parent stock but the fellow said he could meet me in Ocala since he had to go to Ocala for whatever reason. I agreed and met him and got 3 dozen eggs. The chicks hatched out and they were clearly not pure RIR. they were light in color, skinny and pinched high tails like production reds. I didn't keep them. I went to a Lake City show and saw some nice looking birds and bought them but after seeing other pure RIR's at shows I knew I still wasn't satisfied. I tried to work with them but the males and females weren't as full bodied as I would have liked. I tried to selectively breed them but still wasn't satisfied. I went to a show and saw some very fine looking Reds. I sought out the owner who was Matt Ulrich. I made arrangements to get a quad from him at a show. That was the best decision I ever made. I did eventually get rid of the other birds and each year have gotten a new cockerel from Matt. My birds have improved tremendously. As Fred says, you need to hatch out quite a lot of chicks to get a few good breeders. I have had some nice males that the chicks weren't all that great and some males that weren't that great that produced great chicks. For the most part now every year the birds do get better and better. It is not instant gratification it is hard work but a work of love for me and I do want to see others that have the passion, succeed. I do not ship chicks or birds but do sell eggs but only for a certain period of time. I have learned over the years that here in the south (Florida) extreme heat and cold will greatly affect fertility and the spring and early summer are when the birds are the most fertile and I have my best hatches. Soon it will be time to rearrange my pens again to accommodate my youngsters. I will have to sell some birds to make room. I wish I could keep them all but can't. I will keep my best birds.

 

[gander007]

Has anyone ever heard of evieshotchicks in cookstown, nj? Well, she is mostly the reason I am in the mess I am in right now with my RIR being poor quality, and needing to find new ones ASAP. I was just starting out with show birds last September, and wanted to start with some RIR. I had kept them before from a hatchery, but this time wanted to try some nicer better quality ones. So I searched Craigslist(first mistake) and found someone selling heritage RIR. I thought this would be a great opportunity to get high quality birds from a nice breeder. Boy, was I about to find out that everything in that previous sentence was a lie. I was only a beginner and didn't know any better, but looking at the pictures from the ad now, I can see that these birds are some poor quality excuses for Heritage RIR. In the ad, it said "this is an old fashioned heritage stock and has that true dark mahogany color with the black and teal tail feathering". In hindsight, i don't know whether that sentence makes me mad or makes me laugh, because that could not be further from the truth. These birds are light as can be, almost like production reds, wrong tail angle, horrible skinny body type, and horrific combs. The seller of these birds blatantly lied to me about the quality of these birds, and took advantage of my noviceness to tell me that they were not only RIR, but "Heritage" as well. Calling these birds heritage is insulting to the birds that actually are.

The reason why I mention her is because she perfectly fits the description Fred's Hens was giving about how many people are merely "producers" and don't care about furthering the breed and breeding good birds, but rather churning out poor quality stock to make a quick buck. This woman is only doing it for the money, because the way she markets these birds and sells them is robbery. She kept talking about how much money you can make doing this, and how easy it is just churning out chicks and hatching eggs.....well obviously she doesn't know the first thing about real nice birds and doesn't care about breeding good stock. All she cares about is that she sells birds.

I guess it was a good learning experience and lesson. I really wish I hadn't wasted my time with those birds growing them out over the winter, but hey, I learned a lot. One, what to look for in a good bird, and two, not to trust people who churn out chicks and lie about their quality. Not everyone cares about the birds as everyone here does.

Needless to say, I am extremely displeased with evieshotchicks. If anyone here is near NJ, I would strongly advise you to stay away from that place. If you want hatchery quality birds, go to your local feed store.

Quote:

Has anyone ever heard of evieshotchicks in cookstown, nj? Well, she is mostly the reason I am in the mess I am in right now with my RIR being poor quality, and needing to find new ones ASAP. I was just starting out with show birds last September, and wanted to start with some RIR. I had kept them before from a hatchery, but this time wanted to try some nicer better quality ones. So I searched Craigslist(first mistake) and found someone selling heritage RIR. I thought this would be a great opportunity to get high quality birds from a nice breeder. Boy, was I about to find out that everything in that previous sentence was a lie. I was only a beginner and didn't know any better, but looking at the pictures from the ad now, I can see that these birds are some poor quality excuses for Heritage RIR. In the ad, it said "this is an old fashioned heritage stock and has that true dark mahogany color with the black and teal tail feathering". In hindsight, i don't know whether that sentence makes me mad or makes me laugh, because that could not be further from the truth. These birds are light as can be, almost like production reds, wrong tail angle, horrible skinny body type, and horrific combs. The seller of these birds blatantly lied to me about the quality of these birds, and took advantage of my noviceness to tell me that they were not only RIR, but "Heritage" as well. Calling these birds heritage is insulting to the birds that actually are.

The reason why I mention her is because she perfectly fits the description Fred's Hens was giving about how many people are merely "producers" and don't care about furthering the breed and breeding good birds, but rather churning out poor quality stock to make a quick buck. This woman is only doing it for the money, because the way she markets these birds and sells them is robbery. She kept talking about how much money you can make doing this, and how easy it is just churning out chicks and hatching eggs.....well obviously she doesn't know the first thing about real nice birds and doesn't care about breeding good stock. All she cares about is that she sells birds.

I guess it was a good learning experience and lesson. I really wish I hadn't wasted my time with those birds growing them out over the winter, but hey, I learned a lot. One, what to look for in a good bird, and two, not to trust people who churn out chicks and lie about their quality. Not everyone cares about the birds as everyone here does.

Needless to say, I am extremely displeased with evieshotchicks. If anyone here is near NJ, I would strongly advise you to stay away from that place. If you want hatchery quality birds, go to your local feed store.

Quote:
Yep, beware to the buyer and as funny as it sounds in every aspect of the poultry trade ..

Be educated about what you are looking for as that same chicken will make others happy so the seller is just like a used car sales person

 

[desertmarcy]

These last few posts make it sound like every seller on CraigsList is selling crappy birds, and that is just not the case. The buyer does need to know what they are looking for and ask the right questions, and see the birds. But there are good birds to be had from CraigsList ads as well as poor.

 

[waddles99]

These last few posts make it sound like every seller on CraigsList is selling crappy birds, and that is just not the case. The buyer does need to know what they are looking for and ask the right questions, and see the birds. But there are good birds to be had from CraigsList ads as well as poor.

No one every said every seller on Craigslist was selling crappy birds. Specific scenarios of crappy birds were mentioned, but no generalizations were made that ALL birds on Craigslist were crappy.

As for my experience, I was just starting out with chickens at the time. I knew what I was looking for, but didn't know how to find it. I trusted that this woman had good birds because she told me she did. I asked the right questions, she either was lying or was as clueless as I was. I only know this now looking back with my current knowledge. She told me they are good. I guess, being a newbie, I believed her.

Every seller on craigslist is not bad, I have found my current breeder of welsummers on craigslist, and they import high quality bred to the standard birds from the netherlands. When somebody is having the same, pale colored, poor quality birds run around year after year in the same old pen and churn out chicks, then they are bad.

 

[cmom]

These last few posts make it sound like every seller on CraigsList is selling crappy birds, and that is just not the case. The buyer does need to know what they are looking for and ask the right questions, and see the birds. But there are good birds to be had from CraigsList ads as well as poor.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that, only that I was disappointed and clearly they were not what was advertised. It was an experience I thought I'd share. I do place ads on craigslist. I advertise that I have birds for sale and I will be at this show or that farm swap with them. I started a couple of farm swaps a few years ago and I advertise them on craigslist, and we have a good turnout of sellers and buyers. This way you can actually meet the people interested in the birds. We have a lot of regular people who show up month after month, year after year and I get to know them.

 

[gander007]

These last few posts make it sound like every seller on CraigsList is selling crappy birds, and that is just not the case. The buyer does need to know what they are looking for and ask the right questions, and see the birds. But there are good birds to be had from CraigsList ads as well as poor.

Now here is a person who buyers all wish they ran into when buying poultry and this I can attest to as I have personally purchased a had full of adult chickens and still have several of them to this day and use them in my breeding program yes @desertmarcy I can say you are what we buyers are looking for in a sell and as sellers we aspire to emulate ..

Please keep up the good work .

 

[Henerz101]

My rir has gone broody same with another 2 that did yesterday haah