The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[Ur-ur-ur-urrr]

Matt told me that he'd bred show birds that produced offspring he wouldn't show, and bred birds he wouldn't show that produced champions. Genetics is a fickle thing...

 

[waddles99]

Matt told me that he'd bred show birds that produced offspring he wouldn't show, and bred birds he wouldn't show that produced champions. Genetics is a fickle thing...

Crazy to think one could be culling a bird that could potentially produce a grand champion just because that bird wasn't too good itself.

 

[Ur-ur-ur-urrr]

Crazy to think one could be culling a bird that could potentially produce a grand champion just because that bird wasn't too good itself.

Indeed...

 

[cmom]

I had a very nice male some years ago but his offspring were not very good. His names was Curly. My DH names some of the males after the three stooges, so we had Larry, Curly, Moe and Shemp.

 

[waddles99]

Indeed...

But you would never know, and then what are you going to do? Keep all your culls and breed them just for the chance they may produce some stunning offspring? You'd might as well be feeding a village for that price

 

[Fred's Hens]

When you have a sharp looking youngster, one that you might even show and do very well with, you still need to exercise some caution. Just because that was a "show bird" doesn't mean it's a breeder. There are several reasons why. Suppose you keep that pullet or cockerel show bird over a year and moult it out and Ta Da!!! Faults in feather appear, like white feather near the oil gland. That's a dead on DQ, BTW.
So just because it showed well when young doesn't mean you're gonna love it as an older bird nor one you wish to breed off.

Showbirds are one thing. Breeders are something else in many cases. Many time a bird may have a minor fault that keeps you from showing the bird, but you know that this minor fault (faults and DQ's being different things) won't be thrown into the offspring, or you wish to test mate and see. Many times, a compensatory mating is made to overcome the fault.

Let's also say you don't like your tails or wing carriage on your birds. You might well breed such a bird, but not show it, because you intend to compensate with a bird you believe or you know will overcome the situation. This is called "fixing things". We "fix" high tails oft time with low tailed matings, perhaps. This is a teeter totter and it's tough stuff cause you're up, you're down, you're up, your down.

Sometimes you have a bird with not enough black in the wings and you might mate it to something that can "take" that black or "put" that black.

So you see? This isn't what folks imagine sometimes. Birds that may not at all be show birds can be VERY useful in your matings, so they're kept. Likewise, just because a young bird is all that at a show? You're familiar enough with your line to suspect that it will fall apart as an adult. Wise old breeders HATE to mate and hatch off pullets and cockerels for this reason. They're risky in that you commit the incubator space, brooder space, and all that feed, time and energy to grow them out and to have to scrap virtually the whole mess.

When you get a male or a female that throws good chicks? You better believe you ride them into old age, still hatching a few chicks off them in their less vital, senior years, as you so much appreciate what they bring to the equation.

KISS. Keep it simple St,,,,id. Bob's cliche' was "shoot right down the middle". Extremes are such a huge energy drain.

So the next time you see the inevitable posting here on BYC or on FB or wherever for WTB or ISO of "show bird" eggs or chicks. Just laugh. 'Cause it is laughable.

 

[cmom]

Well said...

 

[Ur-ur-ur-urrr]

When you have a sharp looking youngster, one that you might even show and do very well with, you still need to exercise some caution. Just because that was a "show bird" doesn't mean it's a breeder. There are several reasons why. Suppose you keep that pullet or cockerel show bird over a year and moult it out and Ta Da!!! Faults in feather appear, like white feather near the oil gland. That's a dead on DQ, BTW.
So just because it showed well when young doesn't mean you're gonna love it as an older bird nor one you wish to breed off.

Showbirds are one thing. Breeders are something else in many cases. Many time a bird may have a minor fault that keeps you from showing the bird, but you know that this minor fault (faults and DQ's being different things) won't be thrown into the offspring, or you wish to test mate and see. Many times, a compensatory mating is made to overcome the fault.

Let's also say you don't like your tails or wing carriage on your birds. You might well breed such a bird, but not show it, because you intend to compensate with a bird you believe or you know will overcome the situation. This is called "fixing things". We "fix" high tails oft time with low tailed matings, perhaps. This is a teeter totter and it's tough stuff cause you're up, you're down, you're up, your down.

Sometimes you have a bird with not enough black in the wings and you might mate it to something that can "take" that black or "put" that black.

So you see? This isn't what folks imagine sometimes. Birds that may not at all be show birds can be VERY useful in your matings, so they're kept. Likewise, just because a young bird is all that at a show? You're familiar enough with your line to suspect that it will fall apart as an adult. Wise old breeders HATE to mate and hatch off pullets and cockerels for this reason. They're risky in that you commit the incubator space, brooder space, and all that feed, time and energy to grow them out and to have to scrap virtually the whole mess.

When you get a male or a female that throws good chicks? You better believe you ride them into old age, still hatching a few chicks off them in their less vital, senior years, as you so much appreciate what they bring to the equation.

KISS. Keep it simple St,,,,id. Bob's cliche' was "shoot right down the middle". Extremes are such a huge energy drain.

So the next time you see the inevitable posting here on BYC or on FB or wherever for WTB or ISO of "show bird" eggs or chicks. Just laugh. 'Cause it is laughable.

In other words, look for great birds that will molt back to their adolescent plumage every time?

 

[Fred's Hens]

In other words, look for great birds that will molt back to their adolescent plumage every time?

That's unlikely, Joey. But a year old bird isn't the REAL bird. The REAL bird appears the next year. That is why Cocks and Hens have a separate category at the shows.

Cushions can appear. Combs can flop. Feather can change color. Way too much stuff can happen, both for the good and for the bad. Tails can rise above the standard. All kinds of stuff. Good stuff too!!! I've seen so so youngsters BLOOM their second year.

Plus, I'll just tell you this. 90% of the folks I know believe that the chick is just flat better when it was bred out of a mature parent stock. What the science is for this? I'd have no idea, but it's just something to believe in or not.
Breeders have been known to have have matings that they know very well will produce C's and P's for the show but won't produce birds that will be keepers for the long run. Once again, breeders are very special birds. They have high value to me and are more important to me. I've sold more than a few birds straight out of the show coop, in December. Meanwhile, what it takes to make good birds remains safely at home. Hope that makes sense.

 

[waddles99]

That's unlikely, Joey. But a year old bird isn't the REAL bird. The REAL bird appears the next year. That is why Cocks and Hens have a separate category at the shows.

Cushions can appear. Combs can flop. Feather can change color. Way too much stuff can happen, both for the good and for the bad. Tails can rise above the standard. All kinds of stuff. Good stuff too!!! I've seen so so youngsters BLOOM their second year.

Plus, I'll just tell you this. 90% of the folks I know believe that the chick is just flat better when it was bred out of a mature parent stock. What the science is for this? I'd have no idea, but it's just something to believe in or not.
Breeders have been known to have have matings that they know very well will produce C's and P's for the show but won't produce birds that will be keepers for the long run. Once again, breeders are very special birds. They have high value to me and are more important to me. I've sold more than a few birds straight out of the show coop, in December. Meanwhile, what it takes to make good birds remains safely at home. Hope that makes sense.

So then how old do you cull? Surely you dont raise 100+ birds to over a year?