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The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the Standard o' started by Robert Blosl, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. jmc

    jmc Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 22, 2008
    South Central MA
    Quote:
    It is not necessarily true that they are "Production Reds". Whoever came up with that term..................... [​IMG]

    ALL RIR, NH, WPR, BPR, DEL are PRODUCTION. That is the only reason they came into existence at all: Production.

    RIRs from a hatchery are usually true RIR. BUT, BUT, BUT they are NOT AT ALL 'standard bred'. That does not mean that they are not RIR. They are the offspring of RIR even if they are not SQ.

    Otherwise, any and all 'less-than-ideal offspring' of so called 'heritage' RIRs should not be called RIRs either.
    Also, all hatchery BPR, WPR, NH, DEL, BO etc., should also have their names changed because they are 'different': too small as adults, bad tails, bad combs, imperfect body type.

    Ideal, Cackle, Mt. Healthy--at least--sell RIR and also "Prod. Reds". The difference is that the "Production Reds" are either F1 offspring of NH and RIR, OR the offspring of F1 generation offspring of NH and RIR.

    In other words, RIR beget RIR, even if the parents were not managed to the SOP goal. If you disagree, then you should also say that the offpring of Barred Rocks and New Hampshires, etc. are NOT TO BE CALLED the same breed because the parents were not bred with the SOP in mind.
     
  2. punky rooster

    punky rooster Awesome

    Jul 21, 2010
    Quote:
    It is not necessarily true that they are "Production Reds". Whoever came up with that term..................... [​IMG]

    ALL RIR, NH, WPR, BPR, DEL are PRODUCTION. That is the only reason they came into existence at all: Production.

    RIRs from a hatchery are usually true RIR. BUT, BUT, BUT they are NOT AT ALL 'standard bred'. That does not mean that they are not RIR. They are the offspring of RIR even if they are not SQ.

    Otherwise, any and all 'less-than-ideal offspring' of so called 'heritage' RIRs should not be called RIRs either.
    Also, all hatchery BPR, WPR, NH, DEL, BO etc., should also have their names changed because they are 'different': too small as adults, bad tails, bad combs, imperfect body type.

    Ideal, Cackle, Mt. Healthy--at least--sell RIR and also "Prod. Reds". The difference is that the "Production Reds" are either F1 offspring of NH and RIR, OR the offspring of F1 generation offspring of NH and RIR.

    In other words, RIR beget RIR, even if the parents were not managed to the SOP goal. If you disagree, then you should also say that the offpring of Barred Rocks and New Hampshires, etc. are NOT TO BE CALLED the same breed because the parents were not bred with the SOP in mind.

    Could you prove to me that there has been no other breed introduced through the years? The birds being called "production reds" don't resemble the breed at all. While 'less-than-ideal offspring should still. Not saying some won't, but that would most likely be very few.
    I think I can see where your coming from, but I don't agree, and that's my opinion.
    Could you move this to another thread? I don't want to get this one off-topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  3. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    Jun 1, 2009
    Ohio
    Quote:
    It is not necessarily true that they are "Production Reds". Whoever came up with that term..................... [​IMG]

    ALL RIR, NH, WPR, BPR, DEL are PRODUCTION. That is the only reason they came into existence at all: Production.

    RIRs from a hatchery are usually true RIR. BUT, BUT, BUT they are NOT AT ALL 'standard bred'. That does not mean that they are not RIR. They are the offspring of RIR even if they are not SQ.

    Otherwise, any and all 'less-than-ideal offspring' of so called 'heritage' RIRs should not be called RIRs either.
    Also, all hatchery BPR, WPR, NH, DEL, BO etc., should also have their names changed because they are 'different': too small as adults, bad tails, bad combs, imperfect body type.

    Ideal, Cackle, Mt. Healthy--at least--sell RIR and also "Prod. Reds". The difference is that the "Production Reds" are either F1 offspring of NH and RIR, OR the offspring of F1 generation offspring of NH and RIR.

    In other words, RIR beget RIR, even if the parents were not managed to the SOP goal. If you disagree, then you should also say that the offpring of Barred Rocks and New Hampshires, etc. are NOT TO BE CALLED the same breed because the parents were not bred with the SOP in mind.

    How does a F1 offspring of NH and R.I. Red, or the offspring of F1 generation offspring of NH and R.I. Red make a "Production Red"?
    The New Hampshire was bred more meat than egg production.

    Production Reds -
    There are two true types of true "Production Red" one is a R.I. Red bred solely for egg production and selectively bred solely from the R.I. Red. These birds tend to have some black in there tail and some ticking in there hackles.
    The second type of "Production Red" is a cross, and the result of R.I. Red with Leghorn blood added. These birds tend to be lighter in color and may have some white in there tail.

    Some Hatcheries clam that there R.I. Red /New Hampshire cross is a Production Red but this cross to me and others is not a true Production Red because the New Hampshire as a breed was bred solely from the R.I. Red for a more meat type fowl not egg production.

    I will also add that if a chick comes from a hatchery it is not heritage, it is a "industrial" fowl.

    Chris
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  4. mississippifarmboy

    mississippifarmboy collects slightly damaged strays Premium Member

    Quote:It is not necessarily true that they are "Production Reds". Whoever came up with that term..................... [​IMG]

    ALL RIR, NH, WPR, BPR, DEL are PRODUCTION. That is the only reason they came into existence at all: Production.

    RIRs from a hatchery are usually true RIR. BUT, BUT, BUT they are NOT AT ALL 'standard bred'. That does not mean that they are not RIR. They are the offspring of RIR even if they are not SQ.

    Otherwise, any and all 'less-than-ideal offspring' of so called 'heritage' RIRs should not be called RIRs either.
    Also, all hatchery BPR, WPR, NH, DEL, BO etc., should also have their names changed because they are 'different': too small as adults, bad tails, bad combs, imperfect body type.

    Ideal, Cackle, Mt. Healthy--at least--sell RIR and also "Prod. Reds". The difference is that the "Production Reds" are either F1 offspring of NH and RIR, OR the offspring of F1 generation offspring of NH and RIR.

    In other words, RIR beget RIR, even if the parents were not managed to the SOP goal. If you disagree, then you should also say that the offpring of Barred Rocks and New Hampshires, etc. are NOT TO BE CALLED the same breed because the parents were not bred with the SOP in mind.

    How does a F1 offspring of NH and R.I. Red, or the offspring of F1 generation offspring of NH and R.I. Red make a "Production Red"?
    The New Hampshire was bred more meat than egg production.

    Production Reds -
    There are two true types of true "Production Red" one is a R.I. Red bred solely for egg production and selectively bred solely from the R.I. Red. These birds tend to have some black in there tail and some ticking in there hackles.
    The second type of "Production Red" is a cross, and the result of R.I. Red with Leghorn blood added. These birds tend to be lighter in color and may have some white in there tail.

    Some Hatcheries clam that there R.I. Red /New Hampshire cross is a Production Red but this cross to me and others is not a true Production Red because the New Hampshire as a breed was bred solely from the R.I. Red for a more meat type fowl not egg production.

    I will also add that if a chick comes from a hatchery it is not heritage, it is a "industrial" fowl.

    Chris

    That's the first time I've heard that phrase... I like it.
     
  5. Robert Blosl

    Robert Blosl Rest in Peace -2013

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    Mar 1, 2010
    Silverhill, Alabama
    Nice production reds where did you get them?

    I was at a fruit stand yesterday and looked into this ben and saw something I havent seen in a while and I use to have a tree in my back yard in Washington as a young boy. A Bing Cherry Tree and these where the darkest Bing Cherrys I have seen in a while. Almost black.
    This is the color of a Heritage true to breed Rhode Island Reds. I am sorry production red fans. You do not have a real Rhode Island Reds. These chickens have been around since I was a kid. Heck my mother had ten of them when I was first going into the chicken yards.
    Great layers and every buddy had them. They where used in the thirtys to win the Rhode Island Red ROP contests and beat out the real R I Reds. Then these breeders would say my R I Reds lay 275 eggs a year. Every buddy wanted them.

    The real R I Reds the dark ones that I started this thread many months ago only layed about 200 eggs per year some got up to 225 and still kept thier type and color ,but they also would ruputer their ova ducts and you had a high loss.

    Anyway, very true to breed production reds. The best ones I have seen are Ideal Hatchery. They look like a cross with Standard Reds but are still showing a redish rustic hue to thier feathers. Great layers. These will make you money per year for egg laying.

    Hope to see more pictues of your young birds for this season. Show us those brick shape dark looking Reds. bob

    Quote:
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011
  6. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sep 6, 2009
    Colorado
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Yeah, theres a little bit of a difference between a hatchery red and true heritage breed Rhode Island Red...
    These pics are my boys and their prize cockerel taken earlier this week.
    And on a side note. Their pullet/sister to the cock bird took Reserve.
    [​IMG]

    All ribbons and trophies from 2 Rhode Island Reds...
    [​IMG]

    Judge...Pat Malone. Nuff said.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011
  7. nivtup

    nivtup Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 24, 2008
    Shelton Washington
    Congrats on the wins, how exciting.
     
  8. Robert Blosl

    Robert Blosl Rest in Peace -2013

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    Mar 1, 2010
    Silverhill, Alabama
    Wow look at the champion Rhode Island Reds. This is the real stuff and I think these are Mohawks from Colo am I correct? Is this a ckl or last years old male?

    Next about 99 years ago this strain started from a breeder in Mass called Owen Farms. They where early Rhode Island Reds lighter in color but brick in shape with a tail angle of flat to about 20 degrees in angle. They layed over time about 190 eggs in a pullet year.

    About 1930 a new type of Rhode Island Reds where started where they crossed Brown Leghorns into a R I Red strain and in about three to four years of picking up in egg production they to about 250 eggs per year. They had red ear lobes and then where entered in the egg laying contests as Rhode Island Reds. The rule was that the breeds had to be true to breed and score at least 90 points out of 100 to be entered. There where some shadey things going on back then and also these programs where goverment or state ran and people where worried about loosing their jobs so they would turn thier eyes on some birds being sent. Well it up set many of the good breeders who had the old fashion standard breed or what we called Hertage breeds and they stoped sending thier birds because the pictures that where being posted in leading poultry magzines where not true to breed and where culls. In the R I Reds the production female was very light in color and her tail angle was around 40 degrees and when people started buying these birds they could see they did not get what they thought they where getting. Kind of like a lot of you who buy eggs in the spring and after you raise them up they are not what you thought they would be but yet the seller said they where Heratage R I Reds. Lets face it most good breeders do not sell eggs or chicks they dont have enough birds to do this.

    I have a link to a German Rhode Island Red Club site. Look at the pictures of thier birds and the color of thier R I Reds. You will not see any rusty or rustic colored chickens on this site. Why they have the old fashion R I Reds from about 1947 when our leading breeders sent chicks to Germany to rebuild thier flocks after the War. The folks in Europe are very proud chicken people and thier birds are true to breed. I dont know if they have feed stores that sell production type chickens or not.

    Some of you want to compair R I Reds to geting a dog from the puppy store or dog pound. There will be dogs that look like a breed but they are mixed. Sometimes you will get what is suppose to be a regerstered puppy but they are not true to breed. These come from puppy mills. They breed them for numbers not to a standard like a good dog breeder.

    Well I am happy for the kids in Colorado with their awards.

    Hope the folks who have the other reds understand. This tread is not to promote or incrouch onto your favorite chicken you got from the feed store or from the post office. If you are happy with them that is what counts. We are talking about a small group of Rhode Island Red large fowl in the USA maybe about 100 birds alive in the winter. We are trying to keep this old line from fading away. You who have the rustic type reds have maybe 5000 alive in the winter. Big difference.

    So if you disagree just look at the numbers. Your chickens are so far away from the true old fashion breed its funny. They still got the same name and always will.

    Hope you understand. Many have come on this tread trying to change our minds. The few of us who breed these old fashion Rhode Island Reds will just keep pluging away and will not introduce such a bird into our flocks. Egg number or production is not the issue.

    We are just trying to keep a old gene pool that is 150 years old from fading away. bob
     
  9. Farmerboy16

    Farmerboy16 Rebuilding my Farm

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    Dec 30, 2010
    Sparta, MI
    I would like to help maintain Heritage Rhode Island Red strain. I am going to get rid of my production reds for the heritage strain. Will anyone have hatching eggs that I can buy in September or October? I read somewhere that the pullets take a year to start laying, not at 6 months like the production reds, and I am wondering if that is true. I will be glad for any other info for this breed. Thanks.
     
  10. jmc

    jmc Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 22, 2008
    South Central MA
    Quote:thanks bob. I absolutely do NOT want to derail this thread. I may start one on the Rustic Red soon and I would love to talk some history with you.

    Get back to them BRICKS, boys! [​IMG]
     

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