The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[sgribble]

Last year at a poultry show I was talking to Matt's dad and he told me that Roberts had really fine birds and that I should talk to him. I sent him a couple of messages but never got a response. Right now all of my birds are the same as Matt's, Actually I got birds from Matt a few years ago and this past January at the show in Lake City, FL., I got another cockerel from him. I love my birds but Joe (Matt's dad) said he thought Roberts had some of the finest birds. I read your BYC signature, Mohawk/Reece standard RIR's,Roberts line standard RIR's.

I got rid of all the Roberts line......

 

[cmom]

I am planning on going to the Chattahoochee Valley Poultry Association Show at Newnan, GA in February.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Good Friday afternoon to everyone.

Thought I'd share a bit about the concept of perhaps taking far less than perfect birds and "breeding them up" to be of the quality one sees in the various top lines often discussed here on this thread over the past 4 or 5 years.

Whenever someone says that is what they intend to do, or discuss such a possibility of starting with so so bird or even outright inferior birds and "breeding them up", a lot of the old timers would shake their heads and say, "Don't bother" or "Don't do it". "Better to start with the very highest quality birds you can from square one."

Why? I can tell you my experience. Almost 7 years ago, I picked up some birds supposedly gotten from Mr. Kittle in western Pennsylvania. Mr Kittle has worked with Reds since coming home from WW II and has always run an ad in the APA YearBook using his slogan "Bred to Standard, Bred to Lay". I can assure you the emphasis was upon the latter. Laying. Great egg laying, in fact.

Having striven to "breed them up" to a more competitive group of birds for show or even to better reflect the Standard as it is understood today has proven the old timers view of "breeding up" to be very realistic. Generation after generation and the progress made has been incremental and sloooooow. I still like the line for it's egg laying, but trying to tease out the genes necessary for size, station, long bodies, low and protruding keels, good heads/combs, wide tails and properly marked black, proper tail feathers and overall richness to the color? Painful is a word I'd choose. Taxing would another good word.

So, next time someone says that they'd like to get started with far less than stellar Reds and breed them up so they'd be respectable against the better lines commonly referred to here as Nelson, Flannagan, Rademacher, Reese, Bates, Myers, etc?? Ask them this question. How long do you wish to spend doing this? 5 years? 7 years? And what if after having spent 7 years trying the results are far less than satisfactory?

So for all those just starting out with true bred Rhode Island Reds I'd just repeat the time worn refrain. Do yourself a huge favor and start with a dozen really great birds from a consistent, established breeder of really good birds. Even with a really great start, the challenges involved will be plenty enough. So, do what you wish with the above information. It's just my perspective anyhow.

Have a great weekend everyone.

 

[cmom]

I agree Fred. It takes several years to get really nice birds. I thought I would relate a bit of my experience. Many years ago I bought some eggs from a fellow that was supposed to have nice pure Rhode Island Reds. I hatched out the eggs and the chicks looked more like Production Reds so I do caution anyone wishing to get pure birds to do their research and get good quality birds from a quality breeder to start off with. I kept the chicks and grew them out and put them in my general population coop and pen. They were good egg layers. I started going to shows at first as an observer and looking at the different breeds I liked, to see the differences first hand. Originally I bought a trio of nice looking birds from the Reese line. They had beautiful coloring but after more looking and research the birds were not as wide and long as I thought they should be. After breeding them I did keep the best of the chicks. At one show I saw a very handsome male Rhode Island Red and after asking around found out who the owner was. I contacted the owner (Matt) and made arrangements to get a quad from him at the next show. Also this fine male was the show champion. I did keep the best birds descended from the first trio of Reese birds I had gotten a few years earlier but kept them separate from the quad I got from Matt. From the quad I got from Matt I hatched out some very nice chicks. The first of this year at a show I got another cockerel from Matt to put with some females descended from my original quad from Matt. I am so happy with them. Now that I have had them for a few years I can really see the improvement. Not all will be great but some will. Last show season (since I do show my birds) 2 males and 1 female have been champions. My first shows I didn't place very well but as I kept breeding each year they were better and I would do better at the shows. Bob Blosl the creator of this thread taught me a lot. I will always value that. I do suggest anyone interested in the pure Rhode Island Reds, read the first post. Also, good luck and have fun.

 

[FloydBhere]

How will you announce your sales? I'm in Florida an would like some birds. Will you let us know on here?

 

[karenj32]

Well this is very poor timing with Fred's Hens recent post. I have not read every page of this thread but I have read the last 500 pages,and am now working forward from the beginning, 100 pages in so far. I have 54 young birds that I purchased from 2 different sources, so I plan on setting up a pen for each group. One group was from hatching eggs I got at local show from a male that I thought was nice. (Judge did too ) But that gentleman didn't have any females at the show, so obviously still a big gamble. The other group I had shipped as chicks, so you can guess where they came from.

The question I have today is, my birds are 20 1/2 weeks and 19 1/2 weeks and I am beginning to worry about the line of their backs. Most of the pullets are quite poofy where I would expect flatness. Is it just their age and feather growth do you guys think? Or have I acquired a whole line of roached backs? I am only just beginning, so no harm done if I have to plop these in the laying flock. Just having trouble waiting for them to grow up. Some of the girls have flattened out in the last few weeks.

I know I shouldn't evaluate them for quite awhile, I plan on waiting til they start laying to really evaluate the girls. Patience is a bit hard for me. (hence why I started with the easy to get stock)

I can take criticism, and I know the pictures are bad, they were just random examples I snapped this morning when I let them out.

Thanks everyone here for all effort you have put in over the years, I can't believe how lucky I am to be able to learn so much from an active online forum that you guys have built on this thread over the last years.

 

[cmom]

My birds didn't start laying until they were around 8 months old around 30 to 36 weeks. Have you felt along their backs? They may be just holding their tails low.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Karen, Why not put a photo of your cockerels up for us to see? I'd love to see your chosen heir and your spare.


On the females, I see what you're refering to but I also see potential in a female here or there. What you're gonna have to do it simply this. Sort through this year's birds, males and female. You must not be discouraged just because almost all of them are less than stellar. Choose your breeding cockbird carefully and choose his "backup" (and yes, always have a backup as the fox/coon tend to like the best young one every year). Then, wade through all those egg layers. Yes, you are so right. Good egglayers they will be. You need to keep reminding yourself that all you need is twom two good females. Repeat it over and over. Just need two good females.

From a breeding trio, you can easily hatch out 100 chicks next spring, perhaps more chicks than you could possibly use. There is no reason to keep anything for the breeding pen that is in #5 place right on down to #27 place. Eat the excess males and gather eggs from the pullets.

If you find you cannot choose even a single good female or a single good male, then it is time to start knocking on private message box doors and asking for some help with a bird or two from someone willing to help you out.

 

[cmom]

I'm having chicken right now, an older male I stewed up. Yum Yum. Can't keep them all.

 

[karenj32]

Karen, Why not put a photo of your cockerels up for us to see? I'd love to see your chosen heir and your spare.


On the females, I see what you're refering to but I also see potential in a female here or there. What you're gonna have to do it simply this. Sort through this year's birds, males and female. You must not be discouraged just because almost all of them are less than stellar. Choose your breeding cockbird carefully and choose his "backup" (and yes, always have a backup as the fox/coon tend to like the best young one every year). Then, wade through all those egg layers. Yes, you are so right. Good egglayers they will be. You need to keep reminding yourself that all you need is twom two good females. Repeat it over and over. Just need two good females.

From a breeding trio, you can easily hatch out 100 chicks next spring, perhaps more chicks than you could possibly use. There is no reason to keep anything for the breeding pen that is in #5 place right on down to #27 place. Eat the excess males and gather eggs from the pullets.

If you find you cannot choose even a single good female or a single good male, then it is time to start knocking on private message box doors and asking for some help with a bird or two from someone willing to help you out.

I will post pictures as soon as I can, I still have all 27 boys, I plan to whittle that down to 4 boys to keep and evaluate them for a final time when the females are ready to be evaluated around 8 months (or after most start laying, whenever that may be). So I will post their pics when I chose them.

Last night I did the cockerel's last weighing before selection, and recorded the boy's Hogan measurements. Wednesday I have help coming over and I will get out the show cages and get everyone up on the table for a full evaluation.

I have a question about temperament. So far, I haven't had any temperament issues with anyone, but last night I got a bit up close and personal with my males, poking and prodding them. Two of them deliberately bit me while I was holding them straight on to look at the straightness of their comb and head width. I made note of it of course, but would that be a mark against them for you guys? Or just what I should expect when fiddling with them at night when they just want to go to sleep? I have only raised Black Australorps to this point, and the only ones of those that ever raised a beak against me were very broody hens.

I am pasting my cockerel's weight history graph here, but I am pretty sure it won't show up on the forum.