The Imported English Jubilee Orpington Thread

[chickened]

Second generation Jubilee Orpington rooster. only get prettier as they mature!

Someone keep printing that breeders are taking advantage of selling older chicks that are older (knowing the sex of the chicks) I'm always upfront and honest about my chicks. I sell chicks in the order they are hatched (I do not have a unlimited supply) and this is all explained to my customers when they purchase from me. It is always best to ship older chicks then newly hatched babies. I have not lost one chick shipping this way. A little extra feathers helps keep them warm during shipping. I've been shipping chicks this way for many, many years. Of course if someone ended up with mostly rooster I would be the first to reimburse or replace them. I have never had a unhappy customer shipping this way only return customers. My first concern is always the welfare of these little chicks. This has nothing to do with making money off of people!

Do you have pictures of first generation? I have a couple project birds that are F1 and they look real similar to your rooster.

 

[kidcody]

All of my breeding stock comes directly from Greenfire Farms...which is why so many of the Jubilee Orpingtons look similar to others...

"Elliot" first generation Jubilee Orpington

 

[jhoughton]

Well my friend after researching your correction to my statement we will have to agree to disagree. I have found, after reading some literature and consulting with some breeders, there is no difference between a Diamond Jubilee and a Jubilee Orp. I did not say there are not color variations, there are. However, the abscence or prescence of the Mahogany gene does not denote a Diamond Jubilee vs a Jubilee Orpington. Mahogany only makes reds darker it does not distinguish two different kinds of Jubilees. If you can find some research that proves that statement to be incorrect I would love to see it.

 

[jeremy]

Well my friend after researching your correction to my statement we will have to agree to disagree. I have found, after reading some literature and consulting with some breeders, there is no difference between a Diamond Jubilee and a Jubilee Orp. I did not say there are not color variations, there are. However, the abscence or prescence of the Mahogany gene does not denote a Diamond Jubilee vs a Jubilee Orpington. Mahogany only makes reds darker it does not distinguish two different kinds of Jubilees. If you can find some research that proves that statement to be incorrect I would love to see it.

Why?

ETA: What "literature" did you read? Care to share the information?

Also, I'd love to know what breeder's you consulted.

 

[chickened]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Comic Sans MS,arial,sans-serif]The Jubilee was created to commemorate the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria. It is a bit of a mystery as to exactly what breeds were used to creat it, but it is believed to be a decendant of the speckled sussex, and some say the buff orpington. There is also a therory that it was wiped out in Germany during the war as Hitler wanted all British breeds culled, and with the Jubilee having such a patriotic tie with Britain, these were not spared, although having chatted to a German breeder, he told me that two differnt types of the colour variation, a darker mahogany ground colour which is the traditional kind, and a lighter more 'ginger' or buff ground colour known as the Diamond Jubilee, both re-created in Germany after the war.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The feather pattern which makes the Jubilee, is a very complex colour, and maturing birds can take up to 18 months to be 'finished'. Not a bird to keep if you're impatient! The shaft should be a dark mahogany with a clear black band, finished with a white tip, or 'pearl' at the end.It should have no smuttiness, or leaking of the black into either the brown, or the white as this is classed as a fault. The old standard page goes into this with more detail. The colouration has a few names, according to the breed, millefleur as it's called in pekins and barbu d'uccles and brown porceline in wyandottes, and the german bred orpingtons, but it's all the same colour. Our line of very fine examples are from Germany, and we have been successfully breeding with them now for four years, and many chicks later, they are still some of the best Jubilees in Britain.
Understanding the colour, and the genetics needed to make the Jubilee patterning is worth while getting to know, keeping it is very important, as once lost, it is near on impossible to regain.
The ONLY outcross to a Jubilee, is a Spangled, and by generation three, the improvements can clearly be seen. The outcross can be safely done only once in three generations, more than that, colour pattern will be lost. So all offspring from generations 1 & 2 must be put back to pure Jubilee. The other thing to consider when outcrossing, is making sure the Jubilees you are breeding with have at least 5 years where nothing else has been ''added'' and of course the same goes for the Spangleds you use, they too must be pure for at least 5 years to avoid dredded supprises occuring in the offspring. Any chicks which appear to be pure black,(which shouldn't happen unless the lines are not pure!) MUST be culled[/FONT]




[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Not sure if this is what you are talking about.If I understand this correctly they are referred to as color variations not unlike what you see in speckled sussex.[/FONT]

 

[jeremy]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Comic Sans MS,arial,sans-serif]The Jubilee was created to commemorate the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria. It is a bit of a mystery as to exactly what breeds were used to creat it, but it is believed to be a decendant of the speckled sussex, and some say the buff orpington. There is also a therory that it was wiped out in Germany during the war as Hitler wanted all British breeds culled, and with the Jubilee having such a patriotic tie with Britain, these were not spared, although having chatted to a German breeder, he told me that two differnt types of the colour variation, a darker mahogany ground colour which is the traditional kind, and a lighter more 'ginger' or buff ground colour known as the Diamond Jubilee, both re-created in Germany after the war.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The feather pattern which makes the Jubilee, is a very complex colour, and maturing birds can take up to 18 months to be 'finished'. Not a bird to keep if you're impatient! The shaft should be a dark mahogany with a clear black band, finished with a white tip, or 'pearl' at the end.It should have no smuttiness, or leaking of the black into either the brown, or the white as this is classed as a fault. The old standard page goes into this with more detail. The colouration has a few names, according to the breed, millefleur as it's called in pekins and barbu d'uccles and brown porceline in wyandottes, and the german bred orpingtons, but it's all the same colour. Our line of very fine examples are from Germany, and we have been successfully breeding with them now for four years, and many chicks later, they are still some of the best Jubilees in Britain.
Understanding the colour, and the genetics needed to make the Jubilee patterning is worth while getting to know, keeping it is very important, as once lost, it is near on impossible to regain.
The ONLY outcross to a Jubilee, is a Spangled, and by generation three, the improvements can clearly be seen. The outcross can be safely done only once in three generations, more than that, colour pattern will be lost. So all offspring from generations 1 & 2 must be put back to pure Jubilee. The other thing to consider when outcrossing, is making sure the Jubilees you are breeding with have at least 5 years where nothing else has been ''added'' and of course the same goes for the Spangleds you use, they too must be pure for at least 5 years to avoid dredded supprises occuring in the offspring. Any chicks which appear to be pure black,(which shouldn't happen unless the lines are not pure!) MUST be culled[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Not sure if this is what you are talking about.If I understand this correctly they are referred to as color variations not unlike what you see in speckled sussex.[/FONT]

You pulled this information from N & J Orpingtons right? They're some of the most respected breeders in the UK of this variety.

jhoughton, looks to me like they're saying there are 2 distinct colors, reinforcing my point.

 

[jeremy]

Quote:
This is a contradiction.

Let's use OEGB as an example.

This is a Silver Duckwing OEGB.

This is a Fawn Silver Duckwing OEGB.

Same breed, same color pattern, but with a slight difference... the Dun gene. The Dun gene is an inhibitor of Black, turning black feathers a gray/brown hue.

This same idea can be applied to the Jubilees with the Mahogany gene and the Diamond Jubilees without the gene. By saying there is no difference between the two due to the presence or lack there of a single gene is completely incorrect. That would be like saying there is no difference between a Black Orp and a Blue Orp. Again, the only difference being 1 allele. A small variation, but still a different variety.

Black

Blue

 

[blackbirds13]

I was curious about this and asked someone in the UK and she said that mostly everyone she knows refers to them as simply Jubilees and that there are some breeders that accentuate the diffference in color to denote quality but that the idea of the mahogany gene is not a point she herself pays much mind to or most of the folks she knows but she is not a big time breeder. She seemed to feel that the Diamond moniker was used to illiicit more money for the birds termed that way. The patterning was more important to her than the color and I had someone mention to me that the color fades over time and with more intensive breeding so I asked her about it and she said that while she personally likes a more mahogany bird others don't or don't care. She compared it to the shades of blue or the degree of lacing from her perspective - same bird just a color variation, preferred or not but based in the tragic history of the bird. She said you can find color differences all over Europe depending on the breeding preferences.. She says hardly anyone she knows refers to them as Diamond. Kinda felt she was laughing at me a bit. I'm only learning about poultry genetics but even if there was a difference how would we know that our imports were 'pure' per say?
When I had asked earlier this year about the Cream Legbars and have spoken to other folks in the UK about the gold in the ones over here they really don't seem to be to knowledgable about the genetics of color and the like, even if they have really great birds. They just state that the gold ones are not legbars and really are of little help in figuring out how to breed that color out so I've been figuring it out myself.

 

[chickened]

You pulled this information from N & J Orpingtons right? They're some of the most respected breeders in the UK of this variety.

jhoughton, looks to me like they're saying there are 2 distinct colors, reinforcing my point.

I think that is where I got it, they have excellent birds BTW. The thing that caught my eye was they said color "variation" which is a bit misleading.

 

[jeremy]

Quote:


I'm pretty sure they're one of, if not the, top breeder of Jubilees in the UK. If anyone would have an answer on the subject it would be them.