The Imported English Jubilee Orpington Thread

[HaplessRunner]

Two of our seven chicks have stripes down their backs. Why? Is this normal? Desirable? Undesirable? Also is anyone working on getting this color recognized in this country? If so how is it going?

The chipmunk stripes are a wild type down. I do not believe that this is a correct down type which may mean someone may have jumped the fence. Are you sure that these are pure?

@nicalandia and is a good genetics person. I have called him here to give an opinion.

 

[pawtraitart]

Two of our seven chicks have stripes down their backs. Why? Is this normal? Desirable? Undesirable? Also is anyone working on getting this color recognized in this country? If so how is it going?

I asked this same question a while back and what I was told is that Greenfire Farms had jubilee stock that had been mixed with partridge. I don't know if that's true or not, but it would explain the wild type pattern. Are your birds Greenfire Farms stock?

 

[Odelia]

I asked this same question a while back and what I was told is that Greenfire Farms had jubilee stock that had been mixed with partridge. I don't know if that's true or not, but it would explain the wild type pattern. Are your birds Greenfire Farms stock?

Yes they are. So I still am unsure is this a good chick or a bad chick? Should I not think about this in those terms? Is this a chick I would or would not want to breed and why? Basically why does it have stripes and what do the stripes mean as far as quality and what it will look like when it matures?

 

[pawtraitart]

Yes they are. So I still am unsure is this a good chick or a bad chick? Should I not think about this in those terms? Is this a chick I would or would not want to breed and why? Basically why does it have stripes and what do the stripes mean as far as quality and what it will look like when it matures?

They will probably color in as they should with maybe some feint stippling but if they were mine, I'd mark the striped ones and not use them for breeders. That way you can improve going forward. The stripes mean they aren't 100% pure for jubilee but like I said, apparently its been popping up with Greenfire birds so you aren't the only one with the issue. Just pick the best to breed for next year.

 

[Odelia]

They will probably color in as they should with maybe some feint stippling but if they were mine, I'd mark the striped ones and not use them for breeders. That way you can improve going forward. The stripes mean they aren't 100% pure for jubilee but like I said, apparently its been popping up with Greenfire birds so you aren't the only one with the issue. Just pick the best to breed for next year.

Is there a scenario where I would want to breed them? Lets say they have great color. Would I breed them and keep only the non-stripped offspring or are they just junk all around? Should I sell them off to someone who wants pet quality chickens?

 

[pawtraitart]

Is there a scenario where I would want to breed them? Lets say they have great color. Would I breed them and keep only the non-stripped offspring or are they just junk all around? Should I sell them off to someone who wants pet quality chickens?

It depends what your goals are. They will no doubt be pretty. I'd eat the males and keep the females for regular layers/eye candy. You have to be careful. Some people will take culls because they can get them cheaper and breed them as pure/desirable. That can cause a problem with the gene pool down the line. If you can re-home the striped females to someone you know won't breed them, then you won't be contributing to the issue. With careful management, the jubilee in the US can be cleaned up a bit. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[chixmix]

People are "creating" the color here too, and probably some are using different combinations of birds than are commonly used over seas. This could be where some of the variants in down colors are coming from in a lot of the newer varieties. Same end result, different down color. Just my opinion though. I like the fact that we are making these colors. Of course there will always be some irresponsible and or sloppy breeders that spoil it for everyone else. That can easily be said for some European breeders too tho.

 

[HaplessRunner]

Is there a scenario where I would want to breed them? Lets say they have great color. Would I breed them and keep only the non-stripped offspring or are they just junk all around? Should I sell them off to someone who wants pet quality chickens?

I would try to get some more information first. I sent you a PM. But another person who is very good at genetics is Tim Henson,@tdhenson86 .

If your intention is to breed only true jubilee orpingtons, then these chicks may present a problem. I am no expert here and others have much more experience than I. I am still very new to this breed. But I have bred cream legbars, ameraucanas, Swedish flower hens, etc. The cream legbars show a true wild type down. When I hatched out what I hoped was pure Swedish flower hen chicks, I found some of this wild type down. So these were cream legbar based Easter eggers since Swedish flower hen chicks do not have wild type down at all.

I have also experimented by crossing cream legbars with Rhode Island reds and buff orpingtons. In both cases, the wild type down came through, reddened in the former and lightened in the latter case. Hence my questions as to whether these chicks were pure. The wild type down is dominant, as I understand, and will carry through. The cream legbar is a barred chicken and the baring gene is dominant.

So speculation associated with the wild type down that is present on those two chicks is warranted and experienced based.

 

[Odelia]

It depends what your goals are. They will no doubt be pretty. I'd eat the males and keep the females for regular layers/eye candy. You have to be careful. Some people will take culls because they can get them cheaper and breed them as pure/desirable. That can cause a problem with the gene pool down the line. If you can re-home the striped females to someone you know won't breed them, then you won't be contributing to the issue. With careful management, the jubilee in the US can be cleaned up a bit. Just my opinion, of course.

I am limited on space and don't have the luxury of keeping just eye-candy. If they are of no value in a breeding program then they will need to move on to freezer camp or someone else's yard. There are plenty of people who want pretty birds who lay eggs. I just want to know if all of their offspring will be bad or if some of them would be lovely solid yellow chicks who grow up to be lovely adults who we would want in our breeding program. Just because they have one bad gene doesn't mean the corresponding gene they got from their other parent is also bad. I don't want to make assumptions. Hopefully someone who really, really knows their genetics has the answer. They are less than a week old. I have some time to decide what to do with them. I am under the impression at this point that they will need to go, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[pawtraitart]

I am limited on space and don't have the luxury of keeping just eye-candy. If they are of no value then they will need to move on to freezer camp or someone else's yard. There are plenty of people who just want pretty birds who lay eggs. I just want to know if all of their offspring will be junk or if some of them would be lovely solid yellow chicks who grow up to be lovely adults who I would want in my breeding program. Just because they have one bad gene doesn't mean the corresponding gene they got from their other parent is also junk. I don't want to make assumptions. Hopefully someone who really, really knows their genetics has the answer. They are less than a week old. I have some time to decide what to do with them. I am under the impression at this point that they will need to go, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I wish I could be of more help. Hopefully a jubilee genetics expert will chime in. Are jubilee wheaten based? The incomplete stripes on your babies makes me think of a pattern gene but then it could be wild type e allele combined with a dilution gene, but then again a dilution gene would be cancelled by mahogany. Buff with a pattern gene perhaps?