The Legbar Thread!

[WyoChickenMamma]

Well it is cute whatever it is! Good luck with it and keep us posted. Sorry to hear about losing one to the heat.

 

[ChicKat]

I did not know there was a contest. I will have to get some better pictures of her and her mullet.

Here is the thread..... I think it would be a fun online event if lots of us participated. :O)
whoops, it would help to put in the link, wouldn't it?

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/684677/cream-legbars-show/10#post_9444558

 

[ChicKat]

Ok so I feel so stupid, at hatch this had all the markings of a pullet its such a rooster. I havent looked at her in a week or a little more becasue Ive been sick. But heres the picture of it. Now I need eggs so I can hatch some females, or just let this dream go and let the rooster Igot from Annies mom go too.. Im so heart broken.
Any how heres a picture of him he has a wild crest too..

This bird is so interesting, especially the crest, and I guess the coloring too.

To my mind, it seems as if there is some additional chicken characteristics, in addition to cream legbar. There are some other chicks from the same seller that are pretty and interesting chicks but they don't seem like clb's. For the ones that are females if they lay blue or green eggs, then they would be those cool crested EEs that I was talking about. -- (I'm thinking people get disappointed with a white or brown laying EE...from what I've seen on the forums). As always it depends a lot on exactly what you want/expect from your birds the path that you and all the others who got such unusual birds take with these unusual chicks.

 

[normanack]

I am really wondering where CindyLee53 is getting these eggs from.  With that wild cresting I wonder if someone didn't use a Cream Barbanter to create an "American" Cream Legbar and pass it off as a UK heritage Cream Legbar. At any rate something doesn't seem right with the CindyLee53 strain. 

Which raises several questions:

1. Is there a way to determine if a CL that looks and reproduces like a CL is not, in fact, a CL? In other words, does provenance alone trump appearance and reproduceability? Should all birds from a questionable source automatically be removed from a breeding program regardless of their appearance?

2. Is there a way to determine if a CL that doesn't look like a typical CL is not, in fact, a CL? What I'm wondering is how one can prove to eBay's satisfaction that the sale is fraudulent. "This bird doesn't look right" doesn't sound nearly convincing enough to me to overturn a sale unless it's fluorescent purple with green spots. To the untutored eye, a crested, barred bird might be close enough to count, even if it's way off to a dedicated breeder.

I absolutely believe in complete transparency regarding the breeding lines of one's birds. And in theory it makes some sense to cull any birds from a questionable source. The sticking point for me is if some of those birds turn out to be completely typical of the breed.

As I understand it, chickens aren't like dogs or horses regarding purebred parentage. Meeting the SOP is what matters (as far as I know -- please correct me if I'm wrong). But doesn't that risk throwing a wrench into the breed's genetics?

I do not know enough or have enough experience to endorse any particular position here. I would be very interested to hear what you all think on these matters. Thanks!

Full disclosure: I own two female chicks from cindylee53 eggs. I will post pictures as they grow and ask for your evaluations. If I ever sell eggs or chicks (and I may not), I will always disclose their breeding lines. I do currently have, and intend to buy more, CLs from reputable sources.

 

[ChicKat]

Hi normanack,

Those are really good insights. We raise registered cattle, they have pedigrees, and I suppose there are a number of reasons why that wouldn't work for birds...but it would sometimes seem good have those lineage papers.

It will be interesting to see what answers come in to your questions.

 

[Flaming Chicken]

[It looks like Norbert my smallest roo. I have 3 and they all developed very differently. Norbert's crest came in later also .

quote name="puglady" url="/t/459044/the-legbar-thread/2110#post_9468450"]Here is my young CL roo He's about 10 weeks I believe. Got him from a friend with too many. Will be getting more from GFF next week. No crest so far... Any opinions appreciated!





[/quote]

 

[blackbirds13]

Which raises several questions:
1. Is there a way to determine if a CL that looks and reproduces like a CL is not, in fact, a CL? In other words, does provenance alone trump appearance and reproduceability? Should all birds from a questionable source automatically be removed from a breeding program regardless of their appearance?
2. Is there a way to determine if a CL that doesn't look like a typical CL is not, in fact, a CL? What I'm wondering is how one can prove to eBay's satisfaction that the sale is fraudulent. "This bird doesn't look right" doesn't sound nearly convincing enough to me to overturn a sale unless it's fluorescent purple with green spots. To the untutored eye, a crested, barred bird might be close enough to count, even if it's way off to a dedicated breeder.
I absolutely believe in complete transparency regarding the breeding lines of one's birds. And in theory it makes some sense to cull any birds from a questionable source. The sticking point for me is if some of those birds turn out to be completely typical of the breed.
As I understand it, chickens aren't like dogs or horses regarding purebred parentage. Meeting the SOP is what matters (as far as I know -- please correct me if I'm wrong). But doesn't that risk throwing a wrench into the breed's genetics?
I do not know enough or have enough experience to endorse any particular position here. I would be very interested to hear what you all think on these matters. Thanks!
Full disclosure: I own two female chicks from cindylee53 eggs. I will post pictures as they grow and ask for your evaluations. If I ever sell eggs or chicks (and I may not), I will always disclose their breeding lines. I do currently have, and intend to buy more, CLs from reputable sources.

There are folks out there re-creating the Cream Legbar for a number or reasons and I guess in every breed you have folks doing things that help and hurt the breed through intent, lack of forethought or innovation...a myriad of reasons. I think these questions are asked in every breed. What's the difference between an EE and an Ameraucana - including the Lavenders????? What about Marans and the numbers of them that lay less than a 4? This bird is a hybrid and in the golden hue we have so much of here it can be recreated in appearance quite easily from what I've read... That seems to be part of why they insist on the cream color requiring 2 cream genes. I'm sure a frizzled legbar is a-coming, perhaps something in silkie? I have to admit I am curious about the Ebay thing....I do wonder how something like that might go down - I've blown it up in my head and added scenes with comparative photos, thought-provoked looking folks and even an overhead slide show shot or two...

I've been thinking about this whole legbar standard thing more than I anticipated EVA...It's like

an addiction <(*:*)> I think that what the breed is supposed to look like is all over the place here in the US and some folks aren't even giving it a thought and I think it may be a while before there is a general consensus of what the bird should look like - how many folks have these birds now? What are they all doing with them?.... The UK opinions would negate a lot of birds over here. I'm not sure about the whole lineage thing and how that's gonna go...I'm interested to see what everyone does and what it all looks like next year - I'm not sure I will be good at this F1, F2, and so on - I feel so impatient. Plus I'm not too much into that lineage thing after my experience with brand name birds but I'd like to see myself made a hypocrite of

. These Legbars are all still Greenfire stock, line this or that in my opinion until folks have a few generations to boast about for themselves. For some culling is not an expense they can or may be willing to take on at this juncture.
There are going to be a ton of mixed birds I'm sure and just like they do on the Ameraucana website and as much as it hit me when it happened to me, someone's gonna hear that their much desired CLB is an EE....It is unfortunate but some folks bought these birds with intents that may indeed indirectly or directly hurt a lot of well meaning and potential CLB breeders.
Those birds that only look like CLB's? Hopefully I'll have a closed flock and not have to worry about that...oh I've got hawks... That's why at some point we will have to follow some sort of standard but who decides what that is - above my pay grade. I've chosen my own direction as I've got to have a plan and I think this forum and thread is a good start for me with this breed, and I feel lucky to be able to toss ideas and thoughts around with like-minded folks but I know that our directions differ. What are the standards? I think that differs for folks so it'll be interesting to see what is finally decided on and how stringent they are....but I read an interesting set of posts on a thread here (wish I could remember) where someone was going to show (and was encouraged by an alleged APA judge to do so) a bird that was known not to be a purebred but was an excellent example of the specific breed he would show it in (it may have been an entirely different mix of chicken but I cannot recall and it was not going to be bred just shown). Some folks may have unintentionally sold mixed eggs or even chicks simply because three weeks was not enough time and the rest of their birds are to standard...whatever that means to them or the buyer at least for now I guess. Buyer beware and you can always test breed.

 

[Phage]

I am really wondering where CindyLee53 is getting these eggs from. With that wild cresting I wonder if someone didn't use a Cream Barbanter to create an "American" Cream Legbar and pass it off as a UK heritage Cream Legbar. At any rate something doesn't seem right with the CindyLee53 strain.

Maybe someone should ask CindyLee53. Also do all the chicks from her eggs look odd?

I did happen to cross my (then 14 week old) CL roo from GFF with a brabanter hen as the CL hen was not ready.
The chicks all hatched out black with a larger or smaller white head spot.
All the chicks are barred, like a barred rock, though have a cream (not white) base and they have a funky rosette in the middle of their comb. And they have a crest, though some are much bigger than others.

I don't think there is any way this particular cross could be confused with pure cream legbars, either as chicks or juvies.

 

[WyoChickenMamma]

Maybe someone should ask CindyLee53. Also do all the chicks from her eggs look odd?

I did happen to cross my (then 14 week old) CL roo from GFF with a brabanter hen as the CL hen was not ready.
The chicks all hatched out black with a larger or smaller white head spot.
All the chicks are barred, like a barred rock, though have a cream (not white) base and they have a funky rosette in the middle of their comb. And they have a crest, though some are much bigger than others.

I don't think there is any way this particular cross could be confused with pure cream legbars, either as chicks or juvies.

I had fairly good communication with her through two different auctions. Then when I asked her to help me sex some chicks because it was not clearly easy she offered to look at my pictures. I sent pictures and asked if there was a chance another roo was getting in with the hens, because people had questioned the pure-ness of my chicks. She never responded. I sent another follow up email, and she has never responded to that.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I had fairly good communication with her through two different auctions. Then when I asked her to help me sex some chicks because it was not clearly easy she offered to look at my pictures. I sent pictures and asked if there was a chance another roo was getting in with the hens, because people had questioned the pure-ness of my chicks. She never responded. I sent another follow up email, and she has never responded to that.

Grrrr People like that irritate me so much... whether intentional or not it comes across as, "whatever I can do to make a buck."