The Legbar Thread!

[nicalandia]

Quote:
that would also be not acurate, because these double diluted birds that lack red enhancers are basically silver looking, so I would call them Grey legbars.. These Grey looking Legbar males dont have the usual Crele(barred duckwing) pattern to them, their barring is light and their gold has been diluted twice by double barring and Cream here is such a bird but from the UK

 

[KPenley]

While this may be the "correct" coloring, I do not love it, nor think these birds are the "stunning" ones described by Punnett. There must be some intermediate between these silver looking birds and the bright chestnut ones that are not correct.

I know I am the downer at the party, and feel like a broken record...but please keep in mind that the "stunning" quote you are referring to is referencing Gold Legbars, the first Legbar that Punnett developed, not Cream Legbars.
Seriously, I think there are enough people who prefer that color to start the Gold Legbar here in America too. People will stop getting so frustrated when they accept that what we thought was cream is truly gold, and the bright colors are indeed gold. I do not say this as someone with high quality cream birds...most of mine are gold...so I'm in the same boat as many of you who love this breed as much as I do.

 

[KPenley]

my first blue egg woop woop

Congratulations on both of your first eggs!

 

[GaryDean26]

"GaryDean said, ...it may just have been aheavy dose of a modifying melonizer."

Ok, but what does that mean? Is there a quality that may be present in a rooster, visually, that might help eliminate it?

My experience with melonizers is with Black Copper Marans. In that variety I don't see any black lacing on the breast of the hens since that variety already has a black breast. We do see problems on overmelonized birds with eye color taking really long to change to orange, the copper lacing on the hackle feathers being clouded over or completely black.

As far as the cock birds go, the copper saddle feathers will be clouded over or completely black, the fluff above the ear lobs will be gray rather than copper, and the eyes will be dark or have black spots in it.

Since the CLB cock birds have a double dosage of diluting from the barring it may not be as easy to find these same sign in the CLB, but if you see black clouding on the saddles, or black spots in the eyes, they they may be signs of melonizers. I am not certain is the melonizers show up in the chick down, but would guess that identical chicks that only differ by a melonizer will display a darker down on the melonized chick.

I will report back in three years after I have observed hatched for a few more seasons.

 

[TheTropix]

I agree with you about a little color in the CLs. If the people drawing up the Standard don't declare a little chestnut on the wing, crest.. etc., as allowed, to a moderate extent, IN the Standard along (along with the cream hackles & other descriptors), the birds with the moderate color would still be DQ'd or otherwise disallowed from showing/placing with the other CL's. Right? There has been other buzz along this thread that seemed to imply that there ar a lot more people that prefer a little color than those that do not. There needs to be an inclusion of both 'varieties', with good body type, as equally allowed. Folks could raise their preferred silvery/slight/moderate color birds. (I've knew some people that specifically bred black & white APHA horses and a line of specifically brown and white APHA horses.. both lines were great & met the Standard for the APHA, yet color preference to a buyer ruled) I hope before the Standard is written in "The Book", this will be seriously considered... or reconsidered. I'm not suggesting we re-write the description of CL's, but Punnet said a little color was just fine... didn't he?

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
True.. Gold Created Legbars is a nice name and they are Rich colored too.

 

[dretd]

Quote: GaryDean, I think you are one to something here. I have a HQ Salmon Faverolles hen. As a pullet her beard came in with a lot or grey to black and she had black tipping to many of her feathers (SF's correct color would be pale, off-white to a peachy salmon color). When she molted her color improved but she does have some dark flecking to her otherwise overly light eyes. I hadn't thought much of it since shes a pet, but it does support your observation about the spots on the iris of the eyes!

 

[1muttsfan]

Seems quite clear that there are cream legbars that have pale color in the hackles and some chestnut color, and are correct in type. We seem to be talking about variations in how light the cream is, and the silver (or grey if you prefer, as that is more technically correct) birds do not look cream at all. If they are supposed to look silver, then why not just have silver crested legbars, and reserve the cream for those that still have some color in the hackles? Cream is not silver. If double barring fades the cream out completely, then those birds are not visually cream at all, no matter what their genetics or what we call them. They look more like poorly barred rock mixes.

 

[dretd]

Quote: I think its good to be a gentle reminder for everyone so that we don't drift from the history. So broken record is ok with me.

It seems like many folks state they prefer a bit of color in the roosters (me included) although many times folks have stated that the consensus is toward the pure silver color (I am not sure this is really the case). I think part of the problem is that there are some roosters that are obviously Gold (no cream) with or without AR (Autosomal Red), there are some that are obviously Cream (like the one just posted by Nicalandia) then there is this in between gray area. Sometimes I look at a roo and wonder if he is a dark barred Cream based bird with tons of AR or if he is a Gold based bird (no cream) with less AR. How can we be sure on this middle band of ambiguous birds? I have not run across any studies regarding how Cream (ig/ig) and AR interact. Please share them if anyone knows of any!

For me, I have 3 pullets, all gold (one with a lot of melanizers and another that I suspect has a lot of AR). The only way I can test their underlying genetics is to breed them to a very cream rooster (known ig/ig) with little color so that I can help to understand their underlying genetics. My goal is to have a flock of known Cream birds and have some color in the males as I think a little chestnut is more attractive. I also prefer not to have a straight-up crele rooster. Since I'm not the smartest person here and can't strip out colors in my head, the only way I can be assured of the ig/ig dilutor being present is to have that silver-y boy. He's not my end goal ideal (though I do think he is very pretty) but I do covet him as a tool to achieve my goals of a Cream Legbar with some Chestnut.

 

[TheTropix]

Quote:
Don't Gold & Silver Legbars lay a white/tinted egg? So they aren't Gold or Silver Legbars. Allow both color varieties (bring eggs for verification!!!! LOL) in the Standard within parameters. Either extreme overly colored, or no color are too extreme. There's a balance that allows for degrees of both.


http://www.tanyaschooks.com/goldlegbar.htm
http://autosexing-poultry.co.uk/wordpress/legbar/