The Legbar Thread!

[dretd]

And while we are talking about confusing things, amending the breed standard to include some wording about how shafting in the female's breasts should be allowed since all have some shafting to one degree or another was floated a bit ago. One of the judges cautioned that if we did this that the overall color of the breast would lighten (something we are also concerned about) and the tendency would be to drift to where the females had a prominent shaft instead of a little shafting--which made me think we are better off either leaving it out entirely or choosing wording like 'a small amount of shafting is acceptable but should be minimal' or something similar.

So does anyone know the genetic footprint of shafting? Is this trait linked to anything else we want or don't want and is it a mixture of genes at play or a single dominant gene or what? Thanks!

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Why would you deviate from the SOP? it calls for it for it, some of the birds posted here(Steem come to mind) have this trait... you see the cream crele Leghorn from Holland I posted? the wing bay is Cream, no barring on it. thats why you hear me say sometimes that some american cream legbar roosters look Cream Crele instead of what Cream Creasted Legbar SOP calls for... take a look at the black and white pic on Punnetts work, it clearly has the grey barred Secondaries(wing tirangle) shouldn't you aim for that?

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
for educational only purposes... look at the pic of this male! he has nice Grey barring on him all around(nice grey barrin gon shoulders) but his Wing Triangle is lacking on the Grey Barring department, you can clearly see this by comparing him to the Black and White birds, specially the one on Punnetts work....

 

[dretd]

Quote: That was not my question. I am confused because what I understood was the light wing bays were brought up as a way to tell if a bird was cream. Perhaps I misunderstood the comment about this.

So what you are saying is that the light wing-bay indicates a 'Crele' bird. Perhaps if you would define what Crele means? It was my understanding that Crele Birds are based on a BBR type color pattern with black in the wing-bays so that when the birds are barred you get a gray and white barred wing bay. If you start with a partridge or Golden duck wing, the wing-bay is golden colored to start so when you put barring over it you get gold barring on the wing-bay. You are saying the opposite if what I had read.

Isn't the Light Brown Leghorn the source for the wild type coloration (base color) in the Legbar so in theory shouldn't the wing-bay have the gold barring diluted to Cream to it appears very light? Now I am even more confused than ever. Is my perception of the base color (gold wing-bay) of the Cream Legbar wrong? Why does the Standard call for gray barring in the wing-bay since gold+barring+ig/ig should not equal grey barring (in theory) it should equal cream barred. What do I have wrong here?

 

[dretd]

Quote: Could you pretty please re-label the black and white photos so I know what I am looking at and also state the reason they are there.

The top is a recent Cream Legabar male showing light wing bays.
The left old photo looks like a Barred Leghorn--is this correct? Is he here for color or type?
The black and white photo on the right--what is this from? It looks like a Cream Legbar but from what era and location? Why is here there, color or type? His wing bays show barring--is the barring grey or cream/gold--I can't tell from a black and white photo?

The original post was for type. Are you now using them as examples for color?

 

[blackbirds13]

My understanding is that their will be barring on the secondary feathers but some birds also have a gold tone that occurs. When I unfold the wing I look for only gray and white barring to be there. You tend to see some gold speckling as some birds age and it will turn to an overall gold tone as the bird matures. Some birds will show cream in the hackle and saddle but still have gold in the secondary and I cull for that. Depending on the fold a mostly white wing may appear so you really need to unfold the entire wing and ensure that the feathers in total are barred. I have seen some that appear mostly white in the bay when folded but are barred when unfolded. What would unbarred secondary feathers denote and is it an issue if the barring is there but does not show when folded in the wing bay? The color I was speaking to was the need to decrease/diminish the gold that is in there and strive for only gray and white barring.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Crele(gold, cream or silver) denotes a bird that is Wildtype at the e locus(e+) with Sex linked Barring on it, thats all, no other modifier... this ofcourse means a bird with little o no barring on the Saddle, shoulders and specially no barring on the wing triangle the Bird the SOP calls for and what is shown on many birds in the UK and USA. are clearly not just that, they have Extra melanizers as to melanize the Shoulder, Back, hackle, saddle and wing Triangle. while these extra melanizers are not listed by Punnett they do ifact impact on the final outcome on the Adult male;s feathers..

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
That boy is actually Punnetts description on what a Legbar rooster should look like... let me find the pic

 

[dretd]

Quote: To which "That" boy are you referring?. Is this the top, the left or the right boy. It would be very helpful to me if you be more specific about who you are referring to when there are multiple photos shown. And also if you could answer my labeling questions regarding the photos already posted instead of posting another photo, although another photo is welcomed as long as it is labeled and there is a clear explanation for its purpose as an example. As Always, thanks for your help!

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
thats gold/cream barring, the SOP(and Punnett's Black and White cockerel) shows and call for Grey Barring here is the PDF.. http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/41/1.pdf