The Legbar Thread!

[CibolaChooks]

H

hahaha itz how it always goes. Post we need most mostly ignored. Ones we want answers to the most spun off into something else

 

[FridayYet]

I was echoing frustration at FMPs broken wing feathers at the show. Was very curious to see how it went. (Sigh) Now I have to wait another couple of weeks.

On the males, I'm guessing the crests don't affect the rose comb as much as it can a straight comb? Any head shots of your roosters available?

 

[Darkangael]

Sorry your bird broke her feathers before you could show her

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

On the rose comb birds, the crest causes the comb to have an 's' shape to them. The non-crested birds have straight combs though. There is a pic on my sale posting, I think this is the same pic...

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

That is one of the non- crested cockerels. They are all out free ranging so it is hard to get pics of them

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Nicalandia, when I look at the very old photograph, I note a couple of things. This is a black and white representation of an older Gold Legbar (not Cream) Cockerel that may have been slightly retouched (common form the time period). The description above the photo talks about the gold hackles and the bright chestnut of the wing coverts (wing bow and shoulder). So although the comment says that the photo doesn't look like there is color, I believe that it is because the photo is black and white. I do see a darker grey to the coverts which I think is the bright chestnut color. The lover chest appears darker gray which may be shadows or a truly darker color. The wing bay (triangle) look hidden by the saddle so I honestly cannot tell what color the wing triangle is on this cockerel.

I am confused because the SOP does call for :
Wings: Fronts and Bows—dark gray, faintly barred, some chestnut permissible.
Coverts—gray, barred, tipped in cream.
Primaries—dark gray, faintly barred, some white permissible.
Secondaries—dark gray, more clearly barred.

Please Note:I am not advocating whether chestnut is good or bad, or a non-colored wing-bay is good or bad, just trying to clarify what I am reading and solve a color puzzle :

It looks like the 'some chestnut permissible' could be for the entire wing and not restricted to the wing-bow/fronts only ( I say this because in the original article cited above it talks about the brilliant chestnut in the coverts in the Gold version thus logically they should still be present in the Cream version) although the clarification appears to say Fronts and Bows which makes me think only there is the Chestnut permitted. When I read the original description about the coverts, it makes me think that some chestnut would also be permissible in the wing-bay (triangle). So as I read this SOP, I am reading it that the wing triangle should be grey barred but wondering if it can be also barred with chestnut if we are to go to the original source?

I think the reason this is becoming important is that we go back to the original sources such as that shown above for guidance, and they may not match the SOP as it was written or perhaps re-written in Britain that we are carrying forward to our proposed SOP, and we need to decide what is important-the original sources and intent of Punnett or the contemporary SOP, or a blending of the two somehow?.

Looking at the two contemporary Leghorns Nicalandia has chosen for examples of the wing-bays being cream (white colored), the Leghorn being the root color of the wild type coloration for the Cream Legbar. Again looking at the SOP, the standard says secondaries-dark gray, more clearly barred., so the Cream Legbar ideal doesn't match the Leghorn examples. Why is that, it confuses me?

So in a nutshell, what is really vexing me is that the duckwing color (brown wing-bay/triangle) of the light brown legbar is getting diluted to cream(white) in the Cream Crele Legbar and the Cream Leghornr yet the SOP says grey barred. It is illogical that the gold in the duckwing would turn to grey when put a barring pattern over it (but would look white/cream when diluted), which is telling me that there is something else going on with the Cream Legbars that would have the base color be dark brown to black (crow wing) if you strip off the barring and the cream. Yet I thought that the Cream Legbars were based on the Light Brown Leghorn and would have a Partridge or Duckwing base. I am struggling with this as I clearly have a hole in my education and I would love to hear ideas from anyone to help me understand the genetics going on here!

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
I would say as long as the birds shows dark grey barring on the Secondaries(as per SOP) then some chestnut barring would also be allowed(you make a good point), now keep in mind that this would depend highly on the birds red enhancers or lack of it...

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
keep in mind the European Brown leghorn used back in the day may have not bee what you see now in the USA, le me find examples of wiltype duckwing type of birds that show some extra melanizers,

 

[KPenley]

I am confused because the SOP does call for :
Wings: Fronts and Bows—dark gray, faintly barred, some chestnut permissible.
Coverts—gray, barred, tipped in cream.
Primaries—dark gray, faintly barred, some white permissible.
Secondaries—dark gray, more clearly barred.

Hopefully Mr. M will have some more clarification on how the melanizers influence the Duckwing pattern diluted with double barring But I wanted to clarify that this is one of those British to American translations that had to be completed. In the APA, we are much more detailed and identify every part of the wing. The UK combines fronts, bows, and coverts together. So we actually had to observe several wings extended to figure out which part contained the "some chestnut smidges permissible" from the PCGB Standard. While I could see extending the "some chestnut permissible" to the Coverts section, should research prove it beneficial and accurate, adding it to the entire wing would not be staying with the confines of the existing standard. I am all for researching the original standard, along with historical descriptions from articles, but we must keep in mind that the APA Acceptance Committee will be comparing our standard to the current PCGB Standard for accuracy and validity.

 

[nicalandia]

here is a good comparison between a Brown leghorn with melanized secondaries(wing Triangle) but not as black as pure crow wing/birchen and a not melanized gold wing triangle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt

Here is a website for the American Brown Leghorn Club: http://www.the-coop.org/leghorn/ablc1.html

I especially like the Single Comb Light Brown Leghorn. Here are some pictures I found.




;
so as you can see one can breed for this trait if its called for the SOP