The Legbar Thread!

[blackbirds13]

Quote:
I contacted Tim Adkerson about this last year as I was wondering if some of the wonky combs on my boys was something I needed to really be concerned about at this early juncture. I am going to post a response by him concerning crests and combs.

"Maria,

It has been my experience that birds that have a crest/cerebral hernia and a single comb will have crooked combs because of the crest/crebral hernia. The crest or the cerebral hernia associated with the crest is causing the strange shape in the comb. I never have produced a single combed bird that had a crest where the comb was not pushed forward and crooked on the anterior end.

II do not know if it is the crest or the cerebral hernia that is causing the comb to be pushed forward and wrinkled. My best guess is that it is the cerebral hernia that is the biggest problem.

The crest gene is incompletely dominant so one gene will produce a crest but smaller than a bird that has two crest genes. If you have birds with the small crests they only carry one crest gene.

The herniated skull gene is recessive. It is possible that some legbar do not carry the gene that causes the cerebral hernia. If this is the case, any bids that do not have a herniated skull could produce better combs.

If the herniated skull is causing the problem- if you cross a male ( crooked comb) to a female with a straight comb- most or all of the offspring should have good combs. The offspring will be carriers of the herniated gene, You will not know if the offspring carry a gene or do not carry a gene. Recessive genes are not expressed unless the bird inherits two of the genes. If you cross two birds that carry one gene, then about one in four of the offspring will have herniated skulls ( cerebral hernias)..

If the crest can cause some crookedness in a comb, then birds that have smaller crests would be your best bet. If you cross a non crested bird with a crested bird, all of the offspring that have a crest would only carry one crested gene and would have smaller crests.
I forgot to add also that a smaller comb may also help the wrinkling problem. My anecdotal work did not determine the cause of the comb problem- I was not working on that. Birds that do
If you cross two birds with small crests ( they both carry one crest gene), then some of the offspring will not have crests, some will have crests like the parent and some will have larger crests.
A male would be the best because he can mate with multiple females and pass on his traits to many offspring in a short period of time. Use the sisters of the best looking male you have in your flock to breed with the new male.

For now you can not worry about the crooked comb and breed for other standard traits. If you come across a male or female that has a good comb then use the bird in your breeding plan.
not have crests or herniated brains do not have the anterior crooked combs. One of them has to be the problem .

Tim"

 

[enola]

I contacted Tim Adkerson about this last year as I was wondering if some of the wonky combs on my boys was something I needed to really be concerned about at this early juncture. I am going to post a response by him concerning crests and combs.

"Maria,

It has been my experience that birds that have a crest/cerebral hernia and a single comb will have crooked combs because of the crest/crebral hernia. The crest or the cerebral hernia associated with the crest is causing the strange shape in the comb. I never have produced a single combed bird that had a crest where the comb was not pushed forward and crooked on the anterior end.

II do not know if it is the crest or the cerebral hernia that is causing the comb to be pushed forward and wrinkled. My best guess is that it is the cerebral hernia that is the biggest problem.

The crest gene is incompletely dominant so one gene will produce a crest but smaller than a bird that has two crest genes. If you have birds with the small crests they only carry one crest gene.

The herniated skull gene is recessive. It is possible that some legbar do not carry the gene that causes the cerebral hernia. If this is the case, any bids that do not have a herniated skull could produce better combs.

If the herniated skull is causing the problem- if you cross a male ( crooked comb) to a female with a straight comb- most or all of the offspring should have good combs. The offspring will be carriers of the herniated gene, You will not know if the offspring carry a gene or do not carry a gene. Recessive genes are not expressed unless the bird inherits two of the genes. If you cross two birds that carry one gene, then about one in four of the offspring will have herniated skulls ( cerebral hernias)..

If the crest can cause some crookedness in a comb, then birds that have smaller crests would be your best bet.  If you cross a non crested bird with a crested bird, all of the offspring that have a crest would only carry one crested gene and would have smaller crests.
I forgot to add also that a smaller comb may also help the wrinkling problem. My anecdotal work did not determine the cause of the comb problem- I was not working on that. Birds that do
If you cross two birds with small crests ( they both carry one crest gene), then some of the offspring will not have crests, some will have crests like the parent and some will have larger crests.
 A male would be the best because he can mate with multiple females and pass on his traits to many offspring in a short period of time. Use the sisters of the best looking male you have in your flock to breed with the new male.

For now you can not worry about the crooked comb and breed for other standard traits. If you come across a male or female that has a good comb then use the bird in your breeding plan.
not have crests or herniated brains do not have the anterior crooked combs. One of them has to be the problem .

Tim"

Wow! A lot of food for thought........

 

[Penny Hen]

I contacted Tim Adkerson about this last year as I was wondering if some of the wonky combs on my boys was something I needed to really be concerned about at this early juncture. I am going to post a response by him concerning crests and combs.

"Maria,

It has been my experience that birds that have a crest/cerebral hernia and a single comb will have crooked combs because of the crest/crebral hernia. The crest or the cerebral hernia associated with the crest is causing the strange shape in the comb. I never have produced a single combed bird that had a crest where the comb was not pushed forward and crooked on the anterior end.

II do not know if it is the crest or the cerebral hernia that is causing the comb to be pushed forward and wrinkled. My best guess is that it is the cerebral hernia that is the biggest problem.

The crest gene is incompletely dominant so one gene will produce a crest but smaller than a bird that has two crest genes. If you have birds with the small crests they only carry one crest gene.

The herniated skull gene is recessive. It is possible that some legbar do not carry the gene that causes the cerebral hernia. If this is the case, any bids that do not have a herniated skull could produce better combs.

If the herniated skull is causing the problem- if you cross a male ( crooked comb) to a female with a straight comb- most or all of the offspring should have good combs. The offspring will be carriers of the herniated gene, You will not know if the offspring carry a gene or do not carry a gene. Recessive genes are not expressed unless the bird inherits two of the genes. If you cross two birds that carry one gene, then about one in four of the offspring will have herniated skulls ( cerebral hernias)..

If the crest can cause some crookedness in a comb, then birds that have smaller crests would be your best bet. If you cross a non crested bird with a crested bird, all of the offspring that have a crest would only carry one crested gene and would have smaller crests.
I forgot to add also that a smaller comb may also help the wrinkling problem. My anecdotal work did not determine the cause of the comb problem- I was not working on that. Birds that do
If you cross two birds with small crests ( they both carry one crest gene), then some of the offspring will not have crests, some will have crests like the parent and some will have larger crests.
A male would be the best because he can mate with multiple females and pass on his traits to many offspring in a short period of time. Use the sisters of the best looking male you have in your flock to breed with the new male.

For now you can not worry about the crooked comb and breed for other standard traits. If you come across a male or female that has a good comb then use the bird in your breeding plan.
not have crests or herniated brains do not have the anterior crooked combs. One of them has to be the problem .

Tim"

Clarificartion: Is a herniated brain the same as a vaulted skull?

 

[blackbirds13]

Clarificartion: Is a herniated brain the same as a vaulted skull?

Yes I believe vaulted skull and cerebral hernia are the same thing. I have seen some of the skull bones from my birds and I don't see what I think looks like a hernia.

 

[Penny Hen]

Yes I believe vaulted skull and cerebral hernia are the same thing. I have seen some of the skull bones from my birds and I don't see what I think looks like a hernia.

The Sulmtalers have a larger crest (than most CCLs) and all of their combs are crooked. That is how they are supposed to be. I haven't heard of someone mentioning that they have vaulted skulls (I also haven't heavily researched them either) but I am betting that you will find that they do.

By the way I was web surfing for some information on Breda's and found an article that listed them and the Polish and a couple of other crested related breeds as being halfway to forming a new species. I need to reread it to see, but it seemed to involve the vaulted skull. I posted the link on the Breda thread and the Polish thread. Of course now that I want to post it again I can't find where I saved it. This is a big deal (the article pointed out) because if so it would be the first species formed by the hand of man and not natural selection.

 

[Sarah76]

Hi, any suggestion as to wherethere is a good site to sell my crested cream legbar fertilized chicken eggs?
Thank you

 

[KPenley]

Hi, any suggestion as to wherethere is a good site to sell my crested cream legbar fertilized chicken eggs? 
Thank you

You could try here under buy sell trade, ebay, or Rare Poultry Auctions.

 

[Sarah76]

You could try here under buy sell trade, ebay, or Rare Poultry Auctions.

 

[GaryDean26]

The Sulmtalers have a larger crest (than most CCLs) and all of their combs are crooked. That is how they are supposed to be. I haven't heard of someone mentioning that they have vaulted skulls (I also haven't heavily researched them either) but I am betting that you will find that they do.

By the way I was web surfing for some information on Breda's and found an article that listed them and the Polish and a couple of other crested related breeds as being halfway to forming a new species. I need to reread it to see, but it seemed to involve the vaulted skull. I posted the link on the Breda thread and the Polish thread. Of course now that I want to post it again I can't find where I saved it. This is a big deal (the article pointed out) because if so it would be the first species formed by the hand of man and not natural selection.

I was out in California last week to learn from Cream Legbars evaluations at the Western Regional CLB club activity. The Farm that we were at has Sulmtalers too. I got a good look as some of them. They also has a Pyncheon Hen that I saw up and close that also is a single combed crested breed. One of the biggest questions that came out of the CLB evaluation is what type of comb the CLB hens should have. Specifically if the "S" shaped comb that the Sulmaler have that is caused by the vaulted skull was acceptable or if it should be considered a defect in the Cream Legbar. As our Draft Standard stands I would think that and "S" shaped comb would be a defect but would love to hear other's thought on whether the Cream Legbar Standard should require and "S" shaped comb on the pullets or whether it should stand as written and only allowing the comb to flop to one side (but not to one side then be folded back to the other in an "S"). We were advised as Cream Legbar Breeders that we needed to determine this and make the comb type clear to the APA judges. The notes from Tim make it more clear to me why for APA this have to be clarified (either gracefully flopped to one side, or "S" shaped which would be floping to one side then folded back to the other), but that we can't list both as acceptable.

Yes, I found the same information on the Breda, Polish, Silkies. I have a great Barnyard mix right now. They are 1/8 Silkie, 1/8 Cochin, 1/4 Leghorn, 1/2 Breda and are well on their way to being a medium large fowl version of a Blue Burmese Hens. They have crests from the Silkie influence and we had problems with wry neck in this cross. We looked up the causes of Wry Neck and found that the Breda X Silkie was a bad combination in that both of them have the "Vaulted Skulls" which is the main cause of Wry Neck.

 

[Penny Hen]

I was out in California last week to learn from Cream Legbars evaluations at the Western Regional CLB club activity. The Farm that we were at has Sulmtalers too. I got a good look as some of them. They also has a Pyncheon Hen that I saw up and close that also is a single combed crested breed. One of the biggest questions that came out of the CLB evaluation is what type of comb the CLB hens should have. Specifically if the "S" shaped comb that the Sulmaler have that is caused by the vaulted skull was acceptable or if it should be considered a defect in the Cream Legbar. As our Draft Standard stands I would think that and "S" shaped comb would be a defect but would love to hear other's thought on whether the Cream Legbar Standard should require and "S" shaped comb on the pullets or whether it should stand as written and only allowing the comb to flop to one side (but not to one side then be folded back to the other in an "S"). We were advised as Cream Legbar Breeders that we needed to determine this and make the comb type clear to the APA judges. The notes from Tim make it more clear to me why for APA this have to be clarified (either gracefully flopped to one side, or "S" shaped which would be flopping to one side then folded back to the other), but that we can't list both as acceptable.

Yes, I found the same information on the Breda, Polish, Silkies. I have a great Barnyard mix right now. They are 1/8 Silkie, 1/8 Cochin, 1/4 Leghorn, 1/2 Breda and are well on their way to being a medium large fowl version of a Blue Burmese Hens. They have crests from the Silkie influence and we had problems with wry neck in this cross. We looked up the causes of Wry Neck and found that the Breda X Silkie was a bad combination in that both of them have the "Vaulted Skulls" which is the main cause of Wry Neck.

I was under the impression that wry neck was a vitamin deficiency. So it can be genetic?