The Legbar Thread!

[dretd]

I have always asked myself as to why Barred rocks were used in this cross? I mean the Crele, Cuckoo and Barred Leghorn Variety were created long before the "Autosexing" Leghorn was "Invented" by these scientist, a Brown Danish x Barred leghorn cross would have arrived to the same "Autosexing" Leghorn in the UK, its like Reinventing the leghorn

Hi Nicalandia, glad to see you here.

I am not sure when the Barred varieties you are referring to were available in England, nor how common or consistent the breeds were. Do you happen to have that information?

My best guess is that the Barred Rock was available to them from other experiments they were engaging in so it was the barred breed they had on hand.

 

[nicalandia]

you mentioned that Punnett went about creating the Barred elghorn to later create the Legbars, well guest what? the Barred/cuckoo Leghorns were introduced in the UK way back in 1880s and by 1910 they were as nicely marked as Barred Rocks so I am still wondering why was the barred rocked used at all

 

[nicalandia]

Hi Nicalandia, glad to see you here.

I am not sure when the Barred varieties you are referring to were available in England, nor how common or consistent the breeds were. Do you happen to have that information?.

here have a nice read,

http://www.theleghornclub.com/TextCuckoo.htm

 

[dretd]

Sorry dretd When I mentioned the wing / shoulder I was referring to it being darker on the image. This is I think the best image of a Legbar I have come across and it might raise the question.

If the silver in the image has this dark area what of the idea that the CLB which is based on gold should be very light ???

I think everyone should read the SOP and interpret it to the best of their ability. I have my own interpretation and it may be accurate or not--who knows? I think that the winning lines from England are all fairly light (and I mean very grey/light in tone) so many people look at he winning birds and breed to that goal whether or not it matches the SOP. Why did they gain favor? Again a guess: years ago the breed had fallen out of favor and was resurrected to a certain degree by outcrosses. If someone is looking at a bird and wanting a Cream not a Gold, then the tendency is to go with the lighter color because you know for sure it is Cream even though there may be a range of Cream. You get into a mindset that the lighter is better and pretty soon that is all there is since all the red and chestnut has been eliminated from the gene pool. But you have also selected for an overall lighter toned bird by de-emphasizing the dark grey barring.

The current SOP says:
Neck: Hackle—cream, sparsely barred with gray.
Shoulder—cream, barred with dark gray, some chestnut permissible.
Wings: Fronts and Bows—dark gray, faintly barred, some chestnut permissible.
Coverts—gray, barred, tipped in cream.
Primaries—dark gray, faintly barred, some white permissible.
Secondaries—dark gray, more clearly barred.

According to this, the goal is for a grey to dark grey on the wing with an allowance for chestnut (the way it is worded, there is a preference for no chestnut otherwise it would say mottled dark grey and chestnut, with birds lacking chestnut allowed). So from my point of view, all of the birds that I am seeing that are very light to white with minimal barring are too light if you are to follow the; by the way, I own a 'light' one and am using him for breeding, but he is not my ideal--merely a stepping stone in my path to a destination that will always be just over the horizon. There should be more/darker grey on the wings than I see commonly, but that doesn't mean that a dark shading is necessarily chestnut but could be chestnut. At least that is how I interpret the SOP.

 

[ChicKat]

I have always asked myself as to why Barred rocks were used in this cross? I mean the Crele, Cuckoo and Barred Leghorn Variety were created long before the "Autosexing" Leghorn was "Invented" by these scientist, a Brown Danish x Barred leghorn cross would have arrived to the same "Autosexing" Leghorn in the UK, its like Reinventing the leghorn

Hi nicalandia,

I think you are just reinforcing hahaUthinkso's point that the only contribution from the BPR was the barring gene. It wouldn't have mattered which barred bird got used to contribute this gene.

 

[nicalandia]

Hi nicalandia,

I think you are just reinforcing hahaUthinkso's point that the only contribution from the BPR was the barring gene. It wouldn't have mattered which barred bird got used to contribute this gene.

I agree with him then, BR did nothing but add the barrin gene to the original Legbar, it may have contribuited to some tinted egg too, but this is not longer the case I belive

 

[ChicKat]

I agree with him then, BR did nothing but add the barrin gene to the original Legbar, it may have contribuited to some tinted egg too, but this is not longer the case I belive

Wow -- then we ALL agree.... how rare is THAT? LOL

 

[nicalandia]

Wow -- then we ALL agree.... how rare is THAT? LOL

I can only agree with science, and when a post makes genetic sense(like 2 + 2 = 4 or B/b+ x b+/- = 50% B/- ) I will agree with it too

 

[vlhavens]

Particularly since it's a brown egg layer!?
Perhaps it was to bulk up the breed, and make them more winter hardy?

 

[HaHaUthinkso]

you mentioned that Punnett went about creating the Barred elghorn to later create the Legbars, well guest what? the Barred/cuckoo Leghorns were introduced in the UK way back in 1880s and by 1910 they were as nicely marked as Barred Rocks so I am still wondering why was the barred rocked used at all

No the Legbars are Barred Brown Leghorns as described by the Autosexing Association.

Genetically I am sure there are a dozen recipies but I didnt yet see someone stand up and make a CLB. The fact is there are 2 official CLB legbar lines in the US and unless someone with genetic knowledge can color in one of the plates or produce a Pease bird from his shed all everyone can do is speculate.

You have them, work hard to make your club and standard and enjoy, they do not need re-inventing just some work.