The Legbar Thread!

[HaHaUthinkso]

Im glad you brought up this light gray and dark gray. As I have been looking at my roosters I have been trying to decide some of my goals. I have been drawn to the idea of a darker gray CL rooster. I recently decided on my 2 new breeders, one is what I would consider dark gray the other I would consider light gray. And while I like them both for various reasons and I plan to use them both for breeding I am still drawn to the idea of the darker gray.

Here is a backend pic taken this morn of them side by side to show the contrast.



here are a few more of the dark one








And a few of the light one








and again together light on left dark on right


I am leaning towards the darker male since I envision CL to be a little on the darker gray side. I also hope to one day start seeing a more grayish pullet instead of the mousey brown we see so often.

He is a nice looking bird isn't he.

The UK is at much the same point as you as to what shades are required, the super light males is one train of thought which is being forced. It is worth remembering that there is a small group who have interpreted the standard won a couple of big shows (against questionable competition) and have decided they all know what they are doing. There is no such thing as a thread like this where open discussion takes place which is a sorry way of doing things.

I guess what I am saying is don't be to hasty to follow everything you see, the UK is only marginally ahead of you all.

Does the lack of chestnut in males affect breast colour in females ?

Is the females body silver grey as the standard or too dark ?

Are the female crests brown barred, black barred or cream with grey as per the standard ? ( the big one as this will reflect across the whole bird )

Is the brest salmon or making its way to copper salmon as in the Faverolle head parts ? (without a color chart)

Do the Legbars carry the Leghorn type as without it you do not have the Legbar ?

Does the CLM male in the 1971 British standard look clean silver to you ?

Does the standard carry the words " chestnut smudges permissible because Punnett & Pease knew of the problems without it ?

All questions everyone should ask here in the US while moving on. ( you have time to consider these points and make good decisions openly )


On your males as you mention you will have to test mate them see what the results are and share so others can learn.


Thanks for reading .

 

[HaHaUthinkso]

PS

The US never imported the finished product and has the same tools in the box as UK. If the open way you are conducting this work means the US ends up with closer to standard CLB's than the UK then good on you !!

 

[ChicKat]

Since the blue eggs distinguishes the CLB as much as any other feature, wouldn't it be a healthier breed if the silver and gold were crossed from time to time, as long as the gold did not feature tinted eggs?

There are statements in other forums that say crossing silver & gold will ruin a flock...because silver is dominant.

Also of note, some have said that the Cream Legbar egg - is bluer than their own Ameraucanas.

Many people have also concluded by now, that if an outcross were needed a light brown Leghorn would be the best choice of chicken for that. If that happened it would take some generations to return to the bluest egg.

 

[ChicKat]

Yes, thank you everyone!
Now, how do we pump up the blue color in the Legbar egg.
And, if one could, considering it's a result of an organ secretion, would more of that secretion be good for the fowl, and, would even more secretion make the egg bluer instead of another tone?

There are several articles in the Cream Legbar Club's "Clubhouse" - where a lot of things are archived, about blue-egg intensity. If you are a member you can check there.

Very short summary from my view is that 1. A different pigmentation process causes blue eggs from the brown pigment based coating coloration. 2. Blue permeates the entire shell and is not a coating, so the chicken must produce more of it - it is 'hard' on the chicken to produce the blue pigment from what I hear. 3. In bird experiments, carotinoids (as in beta carotene) can darken the blue. This intensification may be so miniscule that scientific equipment is required to detect the change, but the sea birds used in the tests had bluer eggs, even in the same hatching group. 4. High beta carotene in the chickens diet will intensify the yolk color, it will also add a more red cast to the plumage. (There is a breed of show canary that is red, and showers feed coloring agents to their birds; also a Flamingo without the right diet is very pale pink or even gray - fascinating huh?)
;O)

 

[blackbirds13]

Quote:

As they grow and even now look and see how the barring is achieved. I have 3 roosters with 3 different types of barring. I know these are the offspring of your boy and the 2 girls you purchased from me last year.

I have found that the actual color of the dark gray is not that different in each of the three boys when doing a tail feather comparison. What is affecting the look is the spacing of the gray bars and the white areas. The optical effect is that the bird appears darker when the white spacing is less. If too tight the white may even not be a cleanly white and may even intensify the 'darker' appearance of the bird. This is called Optical Mixing. It's am trick the eyes and mind play. I have one boy that is dark barred and what some term 'crele' in appearance. His dark gray areas are tightly spaced. I have one that I prefer more that has more distinct barring in that the gray tones are the same but the white areas are larger, more in keeping with the size of the dark bars and more cleaner and whiter in appearance. This speaks to me more to the SOP terminology of 'distinct' barring for the male plumage. Some of the lighter males are actually more 'cuckoo' barred in that the barring is not distinct and more blurred. I have a third boy that visually appears lighter because of the dispersed coloring on his breast. The dark bars are the same tone as the other too but they are not even. Even in the tail feathers the chevrons are not even but the gray tone is the same. On the breast its all muddled, his fluff is also not as cleanly barred giving him an overall lighter appearance.

I have read and asked others about this and.... the on off coding for the white areas is genetically decided by more than one gene. It may have to do with fast or slow feathering and the barring ability to cut off the black more or less cleanly. Since you have both type it means like me you have some choices to make and some fun watching to do. I am steering away from the lighter males only in that I want a more cleanly barred bird and not one where either of the white or black areas dominate. I am not looking to breed the very darkly barred ones either as I don't think the tight dirty white areas, especially on the breast, are going to lead to a distinct barring - it's like they are on the other side of the spectrum from the very light barred males. I'm more for something inbetween and closer to my male with the more evenly space barring. I am looking to make the barring more even as I go forward.

The red shoulders are a question still. I think they do have some minimal affect on the breast of the females but I think the effect may be more in and around the face, neck and top of the head in the females and also in the more 'tawny' speckling affect on the female overall plumage. I like a little color on the males shoulders, helps them stand out a bit and does give the bird a bit of reference to it's problematic introduction here. I think too much will have a negative affect on female offspring.

The cream on your boys saddle may temper with age and may also look as it does just optically due to the difference in his coloring. It's amazing what color trick the mind can play with the same color in different contexts. Too much yellow in his saddle is not a good thing for your offspring, especially the females. Judging birds for color online I have found to not be as accurate as some make it out to be. HOWEVER, if he has color in his wing bay - the secondary feathers you see when the wing is folded (some confuse these with primary feathers) then he may not be as inhibited for gold as he should be. The wing bay is to be gray and white barred per the SOP so any hint of color there is not to the standard and may impact your offspring.

 

[vlhavens]

There are statements in other forums that say crossing silver & gold will ruin a flock...because silver is dominant.

Also of note, some have said that the Cream Legbar egg - is bluer than their own Ameraucanas.

Many people have also concluded by now, that if an outcross were needed a light brown Leghorn would be the best choice of chicken for that. If that happened it would take some generations to return to the bluest egg.

I hope to come across those whose CLBs lay bluer eggs than clean Americanunas. Because I'm quite dissatisfied with the clarity and intensity of my 3 lines of CLBs, and am struggling to distinguish subtle differences to concentrate on breeding it up.

 

[chicken pickin]

As they grow and even now look and see how the barring is achieved. I have 3 roosters with 3 different types of barring. I know these are the offspring of your boy and the 2 girls you purchased from me last year.

I have found that the actual color of the dark gray is not that different in each of the three boys when doing a tail feather comparison. What is affecting the look is the spacing of the gray bars and the white areas. The optical effect is that the bird appears darker when the white spacing is less. If too tight the white may even not be a cleanly white and may even intensify the 'darker' appearance of the bird. This is called Optical Mixing. It's am trick the eyes and mind play. I have one boy that is dark barred and what some term 'crele' in appearance. His dark gray areas are tightly spaced. I have one that I prefer more that has more distinct barring in that the gray tones are the same but the white areas are larger, more in keeping with the size of the dark bars and more cleaner and whiter in appearance. This speaks to me more to the SOP terminology of 'distinct' barring for the male plumage. Some of the lighter males are actually more 'cuckoo' barred in that the barring is not distinct and more blurred. I have a third boy that visually appears lighter because of the dispersed coloring on his breast. The dark bars are the same tone as the other too but they are not even. Even in the tail feathers the chevrons are not even but the gray tone is the same. On the breast its all muddled, his fluff is also not as cleanly barred giving him an overall lighter appearance.

I have read and asked others about this and.... the on off coding for the white areas is genetically decided by more than one gene. It may have to do with fast or slow feathering and the barring ability to cut off the black more or less cleanly. Since you have both type it means like me you have some choices to make and some fun watching to do. I am steering away from the lighter males only in that I want a more cleanly barred bird and not one where either of the white or black areas dominate. I am not looking to breed the very darkly barred ones either as I don't think the tight dirty white areas, especially on the breast, are going to lead to a distinct barring - it's like they are on the other side of the spectrum from the very light barred males. I'm more for something inbetween and closer to my male with the more evenly space barring. I am looking to make the barring more even as I go forward.

The red shoulders are a question still. I think they do have some minimal affect on the breast of the females but I think the effect may be more in and around the face, neck and top of the head in the females and also in the more 'tawny' speckling affect on the female overall plumage. I like a little color on the males shoulders, helps them stand out a bit and does give the bird a bit of reference to it's problematic introduction here. I think too much will have a negative affect on female offspring.

The cream on your boys saddle may temper with age and may also look as it does just optically due to the difference in his coloring. It's amazing what color trick the mind can play with the same color in different contexts. Too much yellow in his saddle is not a good thing for your offspring, especially the females. Judging birds for color online I have found to not be as accurate as some make it out to be. HOWEVER, if he has color in his wing bay - the secondary feathers you see when the wing is folded (some confuse these with primary feathers) then he may not be as inhibited for gold as he should be. The wing bay is to be gray and white barred per the SOP so any hint of color there is not to the standard and may impact your offspring.

As always I am really appreciative when you take the time to write posts. Im glad to have your eye on occasion as well as my own. I did notice that it wasn't the necessarily the shade of gray but the spacing that shows mor or less white. So I am glad you pointed that out also since I am new to this and still learning what to look for.

I did take picture of my 2 boys wings this morn.

First picture is the wing of the dark boy


This second picture is of the light boys wing

 

[ChickAdee317]

My mother has chicks and eggs she is selling but trying to find the right place to put it out there. Any suggestions?

 

[ChickAdee317]

Pair $35 (male and female)
Female $30
Male $10

shes on face book search: cream legbar augusta ga blue eggs

 

[nicalandia]

There are statements in other forums that say crossing silver & gold will ruin a flock...because silver is dominant.

Also of note, some have said that the Cream Legbar egg - is bluer than their own Ameraucanas.

Many people have also concluded by now, that if an outcross were needed a light brown Leghorn would be the best choice of chicken for that. If that happened it would take some generations to return to the bluest egg.

umm.. let see..

crossing Silver duckwing with gold duckwing has only ruined the Silver side not the Gold side, and thats because of the dominant nature of red enhancers, so be careful, I for one would use Silver duckwing Leghorns instead, the clean silver ones, that will prevent any unwanted red enhancers(autosomal red) from bringing too much chestnut to a cream line..