The Moonshiner's Leghorns

[Amer]

It's common to just call things what we visually see them. I'm just a nerd so I go a bit deeper.

Colt keeps posting a David Attenborough clip that features him calling horses white. I refuse to watch it lol.

For sure. I can’t stand “self blue” chickens unless they’re talking about self blue as in Andalusian blue without lacing. Just call the icky lavenders by their names!
Oh yeah, this clip always made me snicker:

but Fezzik wasn’t hired for his intelligence.

It also may have been dom white.

Wait, so dominant white isn’t white then? What is it?

 

[Painted Calls]

Ok, define white. I said albino, because it's basically the consensus that in mammals, albino is defined as genetic white, it is also defined as white hair, pink skin and non-pigmented eyes (which do not always appear pink/red)

Me too. Professionally since 1993 when I begin my degree. I remember when color testing was first being developed, they were requesting that if your horse died to please have the vet collect a 2"x2" square of hide and document the breed, if known.

See, I would not define those horses as white. Like my double dilutes, they have 2 copies of a moderator gene. Two copies of the overo spotting genes happen to cause incomplete development in the womb because of the way that spotting gene affects development. It works by shutting off development. First to the hair, then to the hide (which is what causes the shadowing) and with 2 copies it just keeps going.

You're basically saying the same thing as me I believe. You're just more optimistic and in-depth about it. I'm a "see it to believe it" person.


So you're saying that OLWS foals are albino? When you say "overo spotting gene" you mean frame I assume?

 

[Painted Calls]

For sure. I can’t stand “self blue” chickens unless they’re talking about self blue as in Andalusian blue without lacing. Just call the icky lavenders by their names!
Oh yeah, this clip always made me snicker:

but Fezzik wasn’t hired for his intelligence.

Wait, so dominant white isn’t white then? What is it?

Self blue drives crazy too lol.

Ugh love Fezzik.

It's a white spotting pattern.

 

[Painted Calls]

See, I would not define those horses as white.

They are white by definition though. Zero pigment every time. I think that's where we are confusing each other. What I call white you call albino. Which works. I guess I've never called it albino in horses because there haven't been any documentation of it like there have been in other animals. If there had been, I'd likely call it albino too... if I knew that's what they were genetically. I'm a stubborn mule.

 

[Amer]

They are white by definition though. Zero pigment every time. I think that's where we are confusing each other. What I call white you call albino. Which works. I guess I've never called it albino in horses because there haven't been any documentation of it like there have been in other animals. If there had been, I'd likely call it albino too... if I knew that's what they were genetically. I'm a stubborn mule.

You know what else bothers me? When people will call any dilution of wild animals “leucistic” or “partial albino.” Or calling white, nonalbino ones partial albino. Those are just nonsense terms used to describe any color or pattern lighter than wild type but not albino. Just call it a dilution mutation. It would make just as sense to call a blue tabby “leucistic.”

 

[Painted Calls]

You know what else bothers me? When people will call any dilution of wild animals “leucistic” or “partial albino.” Or calling white, nonalbino ones partial albino. Those are just nonsense terms used to describe any color or pattern lighter than wild type but not albino. Just call it a dilution mutation. It would make just as sense to call a blue tabby “leucistic.”

Absolutely! Always makes me roll my eyes.

 

[Miami Leghorn]

I never said anything about albino. I said white. Do I believe albino horses exist? Never heard of one but honestly I'm not sure. I'm going to say probably not or I'd have heard about it by now. Feel free to disagree. I've studied horse genetics for a long time. Genetically white horses have yet to be documented except in OLWS cases. Those horses are white. They also are born without a full digestive tract and have to be culled or they suffer and die.

You have 2 double dilutes. I'm not talking about those either. Those aren't white. The layman might call those white as most would also call a gray horse white. I'm talking about an actual genetically white horse that is not dominant white or maxed out sabino.

I am no longer in the horse world much apart from my own animals. However I used to be thick into the APHA world. I have seen quite a few horses that would appear white. Look close enough in the right places and you will find that they were not. Just very white sabinos. The horse you mention was likely a dominate white. They are rare but they occur.

I've seen an albino horse in Game Of Thrones...does that count?

 

[The Moonshiner]

D@mn it!
Get up and tell us if you're white or not.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I've seen an albino horse in Game Of Thrones...does that count?

Was it a white walker's horse?

 

[Amer]