The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Leahs Mom]

Ok you asked for it.....heres a picture of one if the other hens with the nasty butt problem....I havent even had my coffee yet lol .....just to recap i wormed them a couple of month's ago.. but I havent given meds to them. For about everyday for a week I wiped them up and put a topical spray that is simalar to nustock, I also gave ff and yogurt for a couple of weeks......I've been waiting for warmer weather to start fermenting feed agian. Not all the girls look like this some still have feathers around the vent and some have no issue at all. I have ordered Nustock . How often should I put it on them. How often should i feed yogurt? They were beautiful last yr .some look really worn now....theyare on pasture most of the day and in a large run the afternoon only cooped in while they sleep, all of their needs are met so i don't know why they look so rough..

Yay for "righty"!

I really think when you get that NuStock it would clear up that bottom. Looks like gleet to me but someone else needs to weigh in on that.

 

[Leahs Mom]

How often on the NuStock?

I would probably put it on every couple days for a week or so then see how its looking. But others will probably have a different opinion.

 

[delisha]

Can anyone help my Arizona friend with this bird? Her name is Button. He is prepared to cull if necessary - probably on Saturday if no one has any positive ideas.

Information from the owner:
She hasn't always been this way. It seems to have started when I released her into the main run.
She is about 9-10 weeks old. And the issues started about 2-3 weeks ago.
Her toes aren't always curled, they just end up that way sometimes, like she has little control over her feet. She stumbles around and seemingly trips over her own feet.
She was not vaccinated for anything that I know of.
She is eating and drinking as much as she can get.
The whole flock was on grow crumble until about 3 weeks ago when I switched to lat crumble. The whole flock gets various fruits, vegetables, weeds and/or meal worms every day, multiple times a day. I spoil them

She's showing no improvement and I think I will cull her tomorrow unless you come up with something solid.

She's been on poly-vi-sol for a couple days and I think he was going to try to get some raw liver...

Ugh... on the layer feed..they need to be put back on the chick feed. Layer feed is for hens that lay eggs not for chicks. There are to many things lacking and to many extra stuff for chicks. Raw meat and back on chick feed.

Originally Posted by holderh

You know, I wanted to mention one more thing about the messy bottoms that might be worth thinking about.

You had mentioned that you wormed them and also had tried some meds that would be antibiotic in nature. Sometimes when strong worm meds and/or antibiotics are given, it throws the system off and can cause irritation in the digestive tract. (Of course, a wormer is DESIGNED to cause irritation in the digestive tract to make it inhospitable to worms.)

Unfortunately, they also weaken the immune system and make it more difficult for the immune system to function at peak to ward off problems.

It may just be that the continuing problems in that area are being caused by the medications. If that's the case, stopping giving internal medications can let the system rest and recover, which may be one of the best remedies you could do for those kiddos right now.

A good example of this is when folks take an antibiotic and end up with a "yeast infection". The antibiotic kills off the bacteria that makes you sick - but it also kills off the bacteria that keeps you well ("good bacteria" or "probiotics" as we often refer to them). After folks take an antibiotic it is now common practice to try to rebuild the healthy gut flora by eating items like yogurt, fermented pickles or sauerkraut, kefir, etc., that all contain the healthy bacteria we need to keep things in balance and the immune system functioning properly. We do that because when the bacteria has been "taken out", it allows other organisms - like YEASTS that are always present in our system - to proliferate and get out of balance by becoming dominant. When that happens, we end up with a yeast infection (could be the typical "female expression" of the yeast infection, oral thrush, or..if you're a chicken...vent gleet.)

So we take steps to restore the normal balance of good bacteria which keeps the "bad guys" in check. This is one of the primary building blocks of our immune system that helps ward off disease.


So - even if the problem with the messy butts is NOT vent gleet, using medications (and sometimes even "natural" worming methods in excess) can throw that system off and cause things like diarrhea - and of course the more loose stools, the less the body can absorb the vitamins and minerals that are needed to be healthy.

And so it goes on and on like a cycle, depleting the system of needed nutrients.

If they were my birds, I would stop internal medications (even "natural" worming methods) and let their digestive system have a rest. If you can get raw milk and make some yogurt or just let it sour naturally, that will add some probiotics. Or just store-bought yogurt, plain, with live active cultures. Lacto-Fermenting the feed will also help rebuild a strong immune system as it is full of Lactic Acid Bacteria (probiotics).

So...just some thoughts that I hope may be helpful.

good post and good information

Saw the link to how to kill and process a chicken using slipknot tied in a tree.................much prefer to see it done this "respectful" way......

Of course, my grandfather and great greatparents reportedly just grabbed ahold of them, wrung the necks and then chopped off the heads. When I begin to "harvest" chickens, though, I think I'll follow Alexia Allen's method.

This *respectful* way is for humans, not for chickens. That chicken is frightened from being handled in an unusual manner. But, everyone must do what work for them. If this way makes you feel better ,by all means it is 1000 times better than letting them suffer.

Quote: This is a severe case of gleet..The infection is actually eating the flesh from the inside out. You can see the inflamation from the infection. Very interesting on how resilient poultry are.

 

[stonykill]

Stony, I've been wondering about your Sumatras. Somewhere I think you wrote that 99.9% of what we read about them isn't true. They are not a well known breed, and I wonder how you discovered them, and whether you believe your management contributes to the difference in your experience of them versus that of others.

I talk to MANY people who own Sumatra's. Other than the boneheads

who have them live in a 3x3 cage all of the time to show them ....we all have the same exact experiences with them. Hatcheries unfortunately are just like puppy mills cranking these things out and don't know or care as long as they get their money.

I discovered them by accident. My father is a retired Police officer. When he was still on duty he asked me if I wanted more chickens as a person in town was going to have to get rid of them. It was against the law to have roosters there and the hens needed to be fenced and quiet. Well these guys and girls were free ranging and are not quiet. So I said sure. I had no idea what I was going to get other than chickens.
So over the years I have figured out that they are just a perfect homestead flock to own. Which again, people who own flocks of Sumatra's agree with. Other than the small cage types

.

My management is simple. Let the chickens be chickens. Don't interfere unless needed. Let them feed themselves as much as possible, let them self sustain their own flock by going broody and reap the rewards. TONS of eggs (most hatcheries say 2 eggs a week... try 5 to 6 a week per hen).
If you want to know more I can continue later. Lots to do today

 

[Bulldogma]

Can anyone help my Arizona friend with this bird? Her name is Button. He is prepared to cull if necessary - probably on Saturday if no one has any positive ideas.

Ask him if this pullet had been on medicated chick feed - that could have depleted her system of thiamin and then when he switched her over to Layer too soon, she went down hill from there. It is possible this could be corrected... just depends on the bird and what he can do for her. Lots of meat protein like raw liver, keep the PoliViSol going for a while and get her back on regular chick feed (NON-medicated). Wish him luck with her for me.

Originally Posted by holderh

You know, I wanted to mention one more thing about the messy bottoms that might be worth thinking about.

Expect to see this on Thing One's Thing soon!

frogs? Yup been frogs out here a few weeks. A few became tasty meals

Stony - at some point I'm going to do an article on why chickens need meat protein - may I have permission to use this awesome shot?

I talk to MANY people who own Sumatra's. Other than the boneheads

who have them live in a 3x3 cage all of the time to show them ....we all have the same exact experiences with them. Hatcheries unfortunately are just like puppy mills cranking these things out and don't know or care as long as they get their money.

I discovered them by accident. My father is a retired Police officer. When he was still on duty he asked me if I wanted more chickens as a person in town was going to have to get rid of them. It was against the law to have roosters there and the hens needed to be fenced and quiet. Well these guys and girls were free ranging and are not quiet. So I said sure. I had no idea what I was going to get other than chickens.
So over the years I have figured out that they are just a perfect homestead flock to own. Which again, people who own flocks of Sumatra's agree with. Other than the small cage types

.

My management is simple. Let the chickens be chickens. Don't interfere unless needed. Let them feed themselves as much as possible, let them self sustain their own flock by going broody and reap the rewards. TONS of eggs (most hatcheries say 2 eggs a week... try 5 to 6 a week per hen).
If you want to know more I can continue later. Lots to do today

And if you write something a little more detailed when you get a chance, I'd like to share this breed with the world on the THING.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Stony - You DO sell hatching eggs from your Sumatras...do you ship them or just sell locally? If you ship, how has the hatch rate been for you?

Asking 'cuz I thought someone might be interested in getting some from you!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: Hmmmm this is sounding a little personal to me

 

[holderh]

Leah mom anf delish

Do you think this can be turned around? I've ordered Nustock but until it gets here could I try monostate cream? Should I wipe them daily and then put/monostate/nustock on them every day? What has caused this in the first place so I can prevent it?

This is our set up.maybe you can tell me where we have went wrong.

They have a coop that we use hay (hay not straw) for the bedding. They have a 16x32 run. I let them out early morning to free range on acres of land....I call them in around 1 or 2 I scatter layer pellets, boss, some scratch and sometimes oyster shells or grit. About once a week i clean out the fridge and giveh them veg. Scraps. I clean the coop about every 3-6 months,....there water bucket is a rubber horse feed bucket and I rinse it out when it gets nasty but i dont keep it sparkling clean.

Some of the other chickens get little poop balls stuck to their feathers do they need rhe Nustock too?

Also my barred rocks keep runny poop. Nothing i've tried works to firm it. What can I do?

Sorry for all these questions...I've just been battling this for awhile and nothing I've done helps, the vets no help either...

 

[Pozees]

I talk to MANY people who own Sumatra's. Other than the boneheads

who have them live in a 3x3 cage all of the time to show them ....we all have the same exact experiences with them. Hatcheries unfortunately are just like puppy mills cranking these things out and don't know or care as long as they get their money.

I discovered them by accident. My father is a retired Police officer. When he was still on duty he asked me if I wanted more chickens as a person in town was going to have to get rid of them. It was against the law to have roosters there and the hens needed to be fenced and quiet. Well these guys and girls were free ranging and are not quiet. So I said sure. I had no idea what I was going to get other than chickens.
So over the years I have figured out that they are just a perfect homestead flock to own. Which again, people who own flocks of Sumatra's agree with. Other than the small cage types

.

My management is simple. Let the chickens be chickens. Don't interfere unless needed. Let them feed themselves as much as possible, let them self sustain their own flock by going broody and reap the rewards. TONS of eggs (most hatcheries say 2 eggs a week... try 5 to 6 a week per hen).
If you want to know more I can continue later. Lots to do today

Yes, please! When you have time.

 

[stonykill]

Ask him if this pullet had been on medicated chick feed - that could have depleted her system of thiamin and then when he switched her over to Layer too soon, she went down hill from there. It is possible this could be corrected... just depends on the bird and what he can do for her. Lots of meat protein like raw liver, keep the PoliViSol going for a while and get her back on regular chick feed (NON-medicated). Wish him luck with her for me.


Expect to see this on Thing One's Thing soon!


Stony - at some point I'm going to do an article on why chickens need meat protein - may I have permission to use this awesome shot?


And if you write something a little more detailed when you get a chance, I'd like to share this breed with the world on the THING.

actually Leigh this is the article I plan to write and was asking you about. I'm SWAMPED for the next few weeks. In the middle of building 25 eight foot table to ship by the end of May. So it will not be a finished article until sometime in May at best. I want to clear up a bunch of misinformation about this breed , share personal experience and share some of the writings from the 1870's about this breed.