The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[FarmerJH]

Every single month... same thing... fill up the feed bucket.
My 6 chickens go through about 8-10 pounds of feed per month (that's a 12 pound feeder, and isn't completely empty). My 5 farty baby ducklings who are in a pen and not free ranging yet go through nearly two pounds per day.
I was just thinking... I will probably need to learn some new tricks when winter comes. Question for those who primarily allow their chickens to free range or forage (particularly in more northern areas where it freezes)... what should I expect or do when winter comes?
FF kind of frightens me since (at least currently) they require so little of what I provide... if it sets out will it go bad?

No, it shouldn't go bad. You already have a healthy culture of the fermenting bacteria in the feed pan so any new organisms that try to come in will likely be out competed by the already abundant and sustained growth of the bacteria that fermented the feed in the first place, at least for a day or 2. Or if you are still concerned, you could always feed smaller rations more times per day and adjust as necessary so it only stays around about 24 hours before you need to add new ff

 

[RedRidge]

Being a scientist by trade, this is incredibly interesting to me and I am also trying to provide the best diet I can, like many of you. We're so fortunate to have such knowledgeable people contributing to this thread and I have learned an incredible amount in the past few weeks. I've only had chickens for a litte over a year now and I notice my birds are much happier, their feathers are softer and glossier and they are more energetic and less irritable when they are foraging in addition to just dry or even fermented feed alone. Their condition definitely improved when I switched from dry to fermenting their feed on top of foraging, but the foraging adds that extra bloom to them that noticeably waned this past winter when they weren't foraging hardly at all with the snow.

I don't have enough birds to do it, but if one did, and had the room to separate them, and happened to be motivated enough to do a long term study, one could do a well controlled experiment to determine how much of different feeds the chickens ate and estimate based on that (you would have to have the offerings nutritionally profiled at some point) the relative amounts of various nutrients necessary for a chicken approved healthy diet. For example, 1 pen on dry feed ( layer and non-layer and another on non-layer + different calcium supplement options if you're REALLY motivated), 1 pen on those dry feed fermented, 1 on each of the afore + animal protein supplement, 1 pen offered free choice of multiple different feed sources separated, ex field peas in 1 bowl, oats in another, various types of animal sourced proteins in others, etc and come up with a list of measurable variables to test each pen against each other. You would learn which method produces the healthiest birds based on the variables you chose to measure in addition to (from the separate bowl/ingredient pen) approximately how much of each ingredient offered should be included in a mixed ration. However, its much more difficult to do an experiment to determine min and max nutrient levels because of how some nutrients require others for uptake/absorption or proper functioning. Each nutrient would be a pretty big experiment all on its own. This, of course, would depend on if the chickens ate to satisfy nutritional needs or tastes. The offering separate bowls for each ingredient wouldn't work if they ate purely for taste preferences. I would love to do this.

I too think this would be invaluable knowledge... but I'm a chicken... pun intended.
I don't want to sacrifice any of my birds with an experiment gone wrong.
I think I'll leave the research to the scientists and learn from them...

 

[Leahs Mom]

Question for those who primarily allow their chickens to free range or forage (particularly in more northern areas where it freezes)... what should I expect or do when winter comes?
FF kind of frightens me since (at least currently) they require so little of what I provide... if it sets out will it go bad?

I ended up having to put their pan on a heated base when it got below 19 degrees to keep it thawed.

I leave it out until they finish it. Sometimes the same pan is out a couple days if their appetite changes. Sometimes it's hard to gauge from day to day!

It is fermented and has a higher acid level - which is a preserving variable. Think of fermented sauerkraut, fermented pickles, cheese, etc. Fermenting is how people "put things up" to keep long term before they started doing heat canning (and destroying enzymes and nutrients....

). A couple days out is not a problem at all - and most the time you'll get it figured out how much is about right.

 

[RedRidge]

No, it shouldn't go bad. You already have a healthy culture of the fermenting bacteria in the feed pan so any new organisms that try to come in will likely be out competed by the already abundant and sustained growth of the bacteria that fermented the feed in the first place, at least for a day or 2. Or if you are still concerned, you could always feed smaller rations more times per day and adjust as necessary so it only stays around about 24 hours before you need to add new ff

Feeding the adults is pretty easy to figure out amounts on as the seasons change.
It's chicks I find difficult.
Thus... the advantage of multiple batches of chicks... (like I needed another excuse to hatch a batch)

I feed more than I think I need to to the youngest group of chicks... what is left at the end of the day gets put in with the next youngest group and so on.
By the time the group is 2 months old they have leveled out enough to figure out... or... (cheat a little to add confidence)... leave a little dry for that group just make momma feel better that they are getting enough and then adjust FF accordingly.

 

[Child of Noah]

No, it shouldn't go bad. You already have a healthy culture of the fermenting bacteria in the feed pan so any new organisms that try to come in will likely be out competed by the already abundant and sustained growth of the bacteria that fermented the feed in the first place, at least for a day or 2. Or if you are still concerned, you could always feed smaller rations more times per day and adjust as necessary so it only stays around about 24 hours before you need to add new ff

So.... I just read more than I ever knew about FF on The Thing http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.ca/p/fermented-feed.html and I have some lovely glass jars (from a terrarium obsession) to make it in...
If I am feeding 10# per month would it stand to reason that I would go down to 5# per month on FF?
Can I keep that same pretty jar indefinitely on the counter? and just keep adding dry to it (and water, to cover)?
And it seems like it will be okay for a day or two, but beyond that probably not. So I would no longer be feeding my chickens "once a month" but I would need to do it every day (which I don't exactly have a problem with, just the fear of leftovers going bad) so that would mean like less than one serving/slotted spoon of feed per day (to work out to that 5# per month thing)?

Also, thank you EVERYONE for the responses!

 

[RedRidge]

I'm not sure you could cut it by half... someone with more experience with FF needs to answer that one.
I suspect it depends on many other things... forage and other things you feed that may not be in what you are fermenting.

Some things I've learned...
Only ferment your "grains"... not the additional ingredients if you are mixing your own feed - especially fish meal P U

Don't choose a place to keep your ferment bucket where the temp varies a lot or where you may be making other fermenting things or starters...
I make sourdough bread (so I keep a starter), I make cheese (different cultures), I make water kefir and milk kefir every 48 hrs (starter grains)...
I don't like to keep them all in the same place...
My FF bucket is in a feed room in the barn... I use a 5 gallon bucket with an old towel and a HUGE rubber band around it to hold the towel on.
Other things to have handy... a scale, a strainer, a large plastic or stainless spoon to stir.
Because you need all of these "things" every day... I find it easier and less timing consuming each day to leave it all laid out in the feed room... having it on my kitchen counter would drive me crazy simply because you also need the dry to add to replace what you take out daily and the strainer, etc. But this is just my experience.

The feed room stays cool in the summer and doesn't freeze in the winter; otherwise I'd keep it in the basement.

 

[RedRidge]

As an added note... for anyone who is hesitate (like I was) to begin fermenting...
Leah's Mom was a huge help, had a lot of great advice, and helped me get past the "hesitant" point to actually take the leap.
So... I'm encouraging the rest of you (and thanking her for encouraging me)... my chickens LOVE it!!

 

[stonykill]

What age do you butcher the turkeys? Can you get three and just do it anytime you want one? Or do you have to stick to a time line?

Where's Mumsy? Was going to ask how her turkeys are doing, she hasn't been on for a while.

we did ours at nearly 6 months old. With just regular old meat turkeys you MAY get away with doing them as needed if you kill the Tom's 1st. At 6 months old the biggest Tom's would be 35 to 40 lbs and the hens were 12 to 17 lbs. I want a heritage breed for the reason you list and so I can over winter a few and have them go broody and make more turkeys. I'm all about buying the farm stock once and letting nature breed for me

 

[Leahs Mom]

. I'm all about buying the farm stock once and letting nature breed for me

That's where I'm heading... just w/chickens.

Stony - do you ever put in birds just for meat? Or do you do meat from your regular flock?

 

[HollyDuckFarmer]

I'm at a decision point with my flock of ducks (9 adults, 3- 8 wk old Pekins, 3- 6wk old Runners, and 2- KC 3 wk old ducklings; 17 Total). Cumulatively, they are eating me out of house and home. Most days, the flock free ranges during daylight. I'm lucky to get a 40# bag of layer feed to last 1.5 wks. Plus I'm feeding the young ones starter still. So, my question is this, are the youngest ducks old enough for me to move to a one-feed-for-all? I have the 2- 5 gal strainer system ready to start tomorrow, but I guess I'm a little unclear on how to give subsequent (after the first) batches of FF enough fermentation time. Please see my post on the FF thread. I'm going to have to part ways with my Pekins unless I can find a more economical way of feeding them. I really think the whole flock has just really grown accustomed to the Michigan Winter Diet of feed from the bag and I really need to do something and quick. Thank you all for your ideas and responses.
Holly