The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Alibabe]

Finally photographed the entire interior to show you guys!

Beautiful barn and photo's. Love the pic of the kittens curled up on the shelving. I would love to have cats but I would be so worried about them around chickens that I don't think I would sleep at night.

 

[Mumsy]

Continuing saga of the weird stuff. The good news is none of my birds have shown signs of sickness since the Silkie with lead poisoning. Weird things have occurred to individual birds. I chalk it up to my learning curve. This past week I've been confronted with a new mystery.

One of my barnyard pullets came off the roost last week one morning and acted like she had a sore foot. She limped, held it up and then sat down. I thought maybe she stubbed her toes or tweaked a muscle. Didn't think anything more about it until later in the afternoon I noticed she was not improved. Within the next twenty four to thirty six hours she was sitting more than standing. I picked her up and put her in an isolation hospital pen. Observing her behavior and examining her feet, legs, and body condition. By day two she could not support her weight at all. Held her wings out to balance herself as she scooted/creeped around the pen to get water or feed. Her eyes are clear. No outward signs of anything that I can see. She was stressed to be separated from the flock. Normally I would put this chicken down and bury it and forget about it. But my curiosity is preventing culling just yet.
So...Against my better judgment I returned her to the flock. She can get herself around the yard. The rest of the birds leave her alone. She even manages to lay pullet eggs if she gets near a nest. I picked her up a few times and put her in a box. She lays her eggs and manages to get out again. It's been about a week now. She can get herself up for a few steps. She walks on her tippy toes. I tested her feet for neurological damage by seeing if she can grasp my finger when I press it under the pads. She can. A google search of paralysis in chickens is usually about Mareks. I don't believe that this is that. It is presenting more like TD. I'm going to process her and do a necropsy. If it's TD, I will have a hard time identifying it.

This is what I found in my google search. No copyright infringement is intended. I share it here for educational purposes. I am wondering if anyone on this thread has experience with this disorder. It usually is a broiler/meatie bird problem with fast growing birds.


Tibial Dyschondroplasia, TD

A complex condition seen in chickens, turkeys and ducks. It
may be associated with rapid growth and have a nutritional
factor.
Signs

•There are usually no signs unless the condition is severe.
•Swelling and bowing in the region of the knee joints.
•Lameness.
Post-mortem lesions

•Plug of cartilage in proximal end of tibia, distal tibia, and
proximal metatarsus, in decreasing order of frequency.
•Microscopically - a mass of avascular cartilage with
transitional chondrocytes, small ovoid lacunae and more matrix
than normal.
Diagnosis
Gross pathology; mild lesions may require histology to
distinguish from other problems. Lixiscope may identify in vivo
as early as 2 weeks of age. Differentiate from rickets.
Treatment
None.

 

[CoopChick719]

Trying to catch up after 4 days at camp! My most pressing issue is a 5 week old chick who is not walking well. Will walk a few steps then plop down. Is sleeping a lot. Poops are runny. No one else is acting off. I feed FF, BOSS, and dry crumbles. NO medicated feed! All 5 chicks were bought from the same person within 24--36 hours of hatching and placed under my broody in the coop with the flock. After doing some research here on BYC, could it be a Vitamin B deficiency? I have cut one of my B Complex vitamins in half, crushed it and added to scrambled egg. All of it was eaten. I've added electrolytes to the water and am changing it daily. Fed other half of Vitamin B this morning in applesauce. Chick ate heartily. It perched on the side of the box for a little bit but was wobbily. Is now sleeping snuggled between two stuff animals in the dog crate in the house. Any suggestions?

Aoxa, Sorry to hear of your cocci troubles!! Hope all is well soon!!

 

[aoxa]

love the pics, looks like so much room! Just curious, do you worry about a varmint getting into the barn via the open dutch doors? Thinking coons, weasels...I know you have Henry so I guess he would be a big big deterrent - with the chicken wire there is no protection though.

It is a beautiful layout, and I like the tree branch roosts.

I am not too worried about minks/weasels in my area. The chicken wire is the smallest you can get (1 inch), and a chick can not fit out through it (even newly hatched). It's secured. Henry has tested it. All 70 pounds of him

A weasel COULD get through I guess. We just don't have the issue in our area *knock on wood*. With this heat, we have to allow that air flow. I guess I'm just risking it, but the risk is very low.

Raccoons: I really don't think they could rip this stuff off. It is not flimsy like the 2 inch chicken wire that is used mainly to keep chickens in.

Beautiful barn and photo's. Love the pic of the kittens curled up on the shelving. I would love to have cats but I would be so worried about them around chickens that I don't think I would sleep at night.

Susan accidentally left Suitcase in the chick pen all day while we were at work. He was snuggled up with them when we returned home. Not a single feather out of place. These guys were born on a farm with chickens. They are used to it. I would not just get any cat and stick them in a chick pen.

They've been goosed already. Poor kitties

Trying to catch up after 4 days at camp! My most pressing issue is a 5 week old chick who is not walking well. Will walk a few steps then plop down. Is sleeping a lot. Poops are runny. No one else is acting off. I feed FF, BOSS, and dry crumbles. NO medicated feed! All 5 chicks were bought from the same person within 24--36 hours of hatching and placed under my broody in the coop with the flock. After doing some research here on BYC, could it be a Vitamin B deficiency? I have cut one of my B Complex vitamins in half, crushed it and added to scrambled egg. All of it was eaten. I've added electrolytes to the water and am changing it daily. Fed other half of Vitamin B this morning in applesauce. Chick ate heartily. It perched on the side of the box for a little bit but was wobbily. Is now sleeping snuggled between two stuff animals in the dog crate in the house. Any suggestions?

Aoxa, Sorry to hear of your cocci troubles!! Hope all is well soon!!

All is well now! Thanks!

 

[aoxa]

Continuing saga of the weird stuff. The good news is none of my birds have shown signs of sickness since the Silkie with lead poisoning. Weird things have occurred to individual birds. I chalk it up to my learning curve. This past week I've been confronted with a new mystery.

One of my barnyard pullets came off the roost last week one morning and acted like she had a sore foot. She limped, held it up and then sat down. I thought maybe she stubbed her toes or tweaked a muscle. Didn't think anything more about it until later in the afternoon I noticed she was not improved. Within the next twenty four to thirty six hours she was sitting more than standing. I picked her up and put her in an isolation hospital pen. Observing her behavior and examining her feet, legs, and body condition. By day two she could not support her weight at all. Held her wings out to balance herself as she scooted/creeped around the pen to get water or feed. Her eyes are clear. No outward signs of anything that I can see. She was stressed to be separated from the flock. Normally I would put this chicken down and bury it and forget about it. But my curiosity is preventing culling just yet.
So...Against my better judgment I returned her to the flock. She can get herself around the yard. The rest of the birds leave her alone. She even manages to lay pullet eggs if she gets near a nest. I picked her up a few times and put her in a box. She lays her eggs and manages to get out again. It's been about a week now. She can get herself up for a few steps. She walks on her tippy toes. I tested her feet for neurological damage by seeing if she can grasp my finger when I press it under the pads. She can. A google search of paralysis in chickens is usually about Mareks. I don't believe that this is that. It is presenting more like TD. I'm going to process her and do a necropsy. If it's TD, I will have a hard time identifying it.

This is what I found in my google search. No copyright infringement is intended. I share it here for educational purposes. I am wondering if anyone on this thread has experience with this disorder. It usually is a broiler/meatie bird problem with fast growing birds.


Tibial Dyschondroplasia, TD

A complex condition seen in chickens, turkeys and ducks. It
may be associated with rapid growth and have a nutritional
factor.
Signs

•There are usually no signs unless the condition is severe.
•Swelling and bowing in the region of the knee joints.
•Lameness.
Post-mortem lesions

•Plug of cartilage in proximal end of tibia, distal tibia, and
proximal metatarsus, in decreasing order of frequency.
•Microscopically - a mass of avascular cartilage with
transitional chondrocytes, small ovoid lacunae and more matrix
than normal.
Diagnosis
Gross pathology; mild lesions may require histology to
distinguish from other problems. Lixiscope may identify in vivo
as early as 2 weeks of age. Differentiate from rickets.
Treatment
None.

Mumsy,

I believe I had a hen with this exact same thing! I chalked it up to dislocated hip, but I could not feel any dislocation and worried like crazy it was Mareks. She was the only one to show any symptoms and was the first chicken I ever culled. We did not do a necropsy. I had nightmares for days afterwards. She was like a pet to us.

It started last year right around this time. Very similar to your girl. Standing on one leg.. then sitting all the time.. She could not put pressure on one of the legs. I secluded for a week and allowed her out. She could kind of get around by hopping. She didn't seem to be in any obvious pain. Still ate and drank and laid the occasional egg.

It seemed to get better at one point, but then she went downhill really fast and the flock tried to kill her. She started not being able to right herself. This was in September. 8 weeks after her first symptoms appeared. We culled two days later.

If it was Mareks we would have seen other birds develop it. Nothing since. The barn burnt down in February, so there was six months after we culled her, and 8 months since her first signs.

Please let me know what you find.


I dug through some of my photos to see if I could find an image that showed how she held her leg (when she let it down at all). Here is one.


This is how she looked most of the time though. Always sitting like this.

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy,

I believe I had a hen with this exact same thing! I chalked it up to dislocated hip, but I could not feel any dislocation and worried like crazy it was Mareks. She was the only one to show any symptoms and was the first chicken I ever culled. We did not do a necropsy. I had nightmares for days afterwards. She was like a pet to us.

It started last year right around this time. Very similar to your girl. Standing on one leg.. then sitting all the time.. She could not put pressure on one of the legs. I secluded for a week and allowed her out. She could kind of get around by hopping. She didn't seem to be in any obvious pain. Still ate and drank and laid the occasional egg.

It seemed to get better at one point, but then she went downhill really fast and the flock tried to kill her. She started not being able to right herself. This was in September. 8 weeks after her first symptoms appeared. We culled two days later.

If it was Mareks we would have seen other birds develop it. Nothing since. The barn burnt down in February, so there was six months after we culled her, and 8 months since her first signs.

Please let me know what you fin
I dug through some of my photos to see if I could find an image that showed how she held her leg (when she let it down at all). Here is one.


This is how she looked most of the time though. Always sitting like this.

Thank you for responding Justine. Mareks has a distinct kind of paralysis and does spread through a flock. My pullet sits around just like the image you posted. She seems to semi stand on her tippy toes to get from point A to point B. But not for far at any one time. I believe there must be chronic joint pain. Chickens can with stand a lot of pain without showing it. All of my research so far shows studies and tests are inconclusive as to cause but fast growth and nutrition seems to play a role as well as genetics. The hen and roo I used to breed this pullet were production stock. I have no idea what the genetics were used in them.
I will cull this pullet because she can't roost so she is dragging herself through the poo all the time. She is a target for predators. She can't get to the food and water dishes until the rest of the flock clears a path. I can't justify the feed to keep this bird alive. She will need constant supervision 24/7. It's only a matter of time before secondary causes take her. Better that she has an honorable end to feed my family rather than she waste away or be taken by a hawk.

 

[aoxa]

Thank you for responding Justine. Mareks has a distinct kind of paralysis and does spread through a flock. My pullet sits around just like the image you posted. She seems to semi stand on her tippy toes to get from point A to point B. But not for far at any one time. I believe there must be chronic joint pain. Chickens can with stand a lot of pain without showing it. All of my research so far shows studies and tests are inconclusive as to cause but fast growth and nutrition seems to play a role as well as genetics. The hen and roo I used to breed this pullet were production stock. I have no idea what the genetics were used in them.
I will cull this pullet because she can't roost so she is dragging herself through the poo all the time. She is a target for predators. She can't get to the food and water dishes until the rest of the flock clears a path. I can't justify the feed to keep this bird alive. She will need constant supervision 24/7. It's only a matter of time before secondary causes take her. Better that she has an honorable end to feed my family rather than she waste away or be taken by a hawk.

It's very honourable to end her suffering and to feed your family at the same time.

I hope you find something definitive during her necropsy.

 

[aoxa]

Wow it's quiet in here today.

 

[loveourbirds]

its quiet everywhere. is something going on that Im missing?

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Figured it was mixed, lol. Each to their own, I guess. I'd never use soap, and almost never use bandaids for anything.

In the case of vaseline, it has its uses when mixed with something or used as a covering, but obviously isn't much use otherwise. With the hens with leg mites, I'd think the healed leg is smooth because it's healed, rather than because it's soaked the new mite-free scales with vaseline... Since leg mites cause rough legs and normal healthy legs are smoother. Actually 'soft' scales, however, is something I would consider an issue. Not sure if that's what you meant though.

But I haven't used vaseline for leg mites, just pine tar, and once you put that on the entire lot of bad scales come off and are replaced as soon as the body can grow them.