The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[taylynnp]

I suggest doing necropsy on dead birds and taking pictures.

The oocysts aren't visible to the naked eye are they? Basically if I can't find a cause, assume cocci?



What are people's thoughts on treating with corid? Are there cons to using it? Treat everyone, no one, or just the sick one?

 

[Leahs Mom]

It seems that they're a little old for cocci...did you just move them to a new pen or was anything different in the environment?

One thing I would do is go out and get some raw liver, chop it small and let them begin to eat that. I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your description, but it sounded like they were having probs. walking?

-Were any of them doing the "star-gazing" thing where they turn their heads up and are sitting there looking upwards with neck twisted so they are looking upward?
-Are any of them walking on their hocks rather than standing upright on the feet?

 

[nicole63021]

So ever since our first pullet was grabbed by something while outside through a dog kennel we use and killed, her "Best Friend" has been off. The pullet taken is one that was raising suspicion of being a roo, but it really stuck to this Fav very closely. With out it, this one has been standing in the corner by itself, just a little fluffed. Until today she was still eating and drinking well, but is now showing no interest in anything. Will be isolating her tonight, giving Save a Chick in the water, and offering boiled egg with the feed. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this before. She was checked over, and other than a little scrape on her head (less than an eight of an inch long, and very shallow), nothing is physically wrong with her that I can see (have checked through her feathers, checked her vent, eyes, feet, wings, everything). Starting to worry about her, just don't want her fail. I know this sounds a bit like I'm anthropomorphizing the birds in question, but I'm not sure how else to describe it. Any other suggestions or input is greatly appreciated. These are birds hatched at the end of June, and are being put out in a large kennel this way to really get used to being out there before going into the coop, they are right around 7 weeks of age. Just in case that means anything.

 

[MumsyII]

The oocysts aren't visible to the naked eye are they? Basically if I can't find a cause, assume cocci?



What are people's thoughts on treating with corid? Are there cons to using it? Treat everyone, no one, or just the sick one?

They (the oocysts) can be seen with any decent microscope. Necrosis and hemorrhaging of the ceca and intestines is visible to the naked eye with cocci. Corid does have bad affects and can cause other problems. Treating without knowing could give your birds more than you bargain for.
The symptoms you list could be from any number of different malady's that affect chickens.

 

[delisha]

I forget do hens stop laying when they are moulting?

And update on bumble foot. The smaller scab came off today so I applied more drawing salve and wrapped it up again. It looks like new skin underneath. No hole where I was digging out stuff before. The bigger scab is still there but was raised on edges so I could pick it off. More salve and wrapped again. I am going camping Thursday so I will remove her boots so she doesn't walk around in dirt filled boots. I plan to just spray them with blue kote and when we get back I will start wrapping again. I am hopeful this clears up for good!

Great plan..both on feed and feet

When do you throw your hands in the air and buy corid? I'm not sure that I'm dealing with cocci but I don't know what to do and I don't want to lose my flock.

I've had 2 chickens die in 9 days and another acting seriously off. She's 16 weeks, acting lethargic, head twitching, not really wanting to come out of the coop. Breathing open mouthed. She did get up and ate when I fed her separately. I've seen a few watery white foamy poops lately from the flock. No bloody poops. I don't see lice eggs/duct on them. I've checked their vents and down at their skin. No respiratory issues, other than panting when they are in bad shape.

The first one kept laying down, walk/run knocked kneed or like he was drunk. Didn't want to move. I gave him so electrolytes and then while checking him over he went into convulsions and died. This was all in a span of a few hours. I wrote it off to heat stroke at the time.

The second one I lost yesterday was the smallest pullet. She started getting picked on and kept laying down in the FF to eat. She was a mess all the time. I separated her for 3 days and she just declined. Yesterday morning she was sitting down and barely opened her eyes when I changed her water. She was already slated to be culled this weekend and I was thinking of doing it early just to have it over with. When I next checked on her she was gone.

Seems like I lost the first one not too long after I stopped putting ACV in their daily water. I had read some cautions about using it in the heat of summer. Anyway I started ACV back up today.

I don't know if I should just treat them all with corid? I don't really want to and I'm not sure that's what is going on, but this is awful.

We're supposed to process the extra roosters this weekend. Should I wait since I don't know what is going on?

ETA- there doesn't seem to be any vets that deal with chickens locally. I'm pretty rural.

You don't

I would never tell someone to give an animal or anyone anything with out knowing what is wrong.
It does not sound like cocci..it sounds like it could be many things.

Cull your ill bird and take good pictures of your processing procedures.

Remove the feathers and take pictures
I need skin pictures of legs and wing tips
Eye pictures both eye balls
full cavity pictures (cut all the way up the breast with a scissors threw the breast bone to the neck. Remove both breast halves of meat
Take a picture of the open cavity..remove one organ at a time and try to keep them intact..gallbladder first. Slice it in half and take a picture of contents.
all organs..good pictures and color
all intestines and one small section cut in half

When you get to the sex organs take pictures before removal, after removal take pictures of lungs before you remove them

So ever since our first pullet was grabbed by something while outside through a dog kennel we use and killed, her "Best Friend" has been off. The pullet taken is one that was raising suspicion of being a roo, but it really stuck to this Fav very closely. With out it, this one has been standing in the corner by itself, just a little fluffed. Until today she was still eating and drinking well, but is now showing no interest in anything. Will be isolating her tonight, giving Save a Chick in the water, and offering boiled egg with the feed. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this before. She was checked over, and other than a little scrape on her head (less than an eight of an inch long, and very shallow), nothing is physically wrong with her that I can see (have checked through her feathers, checked her vent, eyes, feet, wings, everything). Starting to worry about her, just don't want her fail. I know this sounds a bit like I'm anthropomorphizing the birds in question, but I'm not sure how else to describe it. Any other suggestions or input is greatly appreciated. These are birds hatched at the end of June, and are being put out in a large kennel this way to really get used to being out there before going into the coop, they are right around 7 weeks of age. Just in case that means anything.

Shock can kill a chicken and sometimes they do not recover.
Treat her like she is in shock. I think you plan of isolation and save a chick is a good plan. add raw liver to her feed. She still needs interaction with her flock mates. Try to let her visit daily.

 

[taylynnp]

No, nothing is different. Same FF and same coop. They free range during the day.

Only one rooster was walking funny before he got too lethargic to move. He was walking on his feet though. Just kind of stumbling.

The other pullets two (one that also died and the current sick one) don't seem to want to move much. I've read someone describing cocci infected birds sulking in a corner. And that's describes how the two pullets acted. The current one is also twitching her head with it cocked a little to one side. When I went out to check on her, she was standing staring at the back wall of the coop, head tilted. She's also twitching her head a lot.


I tried to encourage her to come out. She moved to the other side and then she sat like this for a minute before lowering herself all the way down.


Now she's sitting back at the other side and she's clearly deteriorating, panting with an open mouth. She wasn't doing that 30 mins ago. You can see two of the head twitches at the end.


I'm so sick, not knowing what to do. I don't want to treat with corid just to do something...

 

[delisha]

hmmm.if I had to guess..it would be heat stroke.
Not cocci looking..not disease looking
She has obvious signs of stress and she is hot..possible infection

Listen to her lungs

 

[nicole63021]

Great plan..both on feed and feet
You don't

I would never tell someone to give an animal or anyone anything with out knowing what is wrong.
It does not sound like cocci..it sounds like it could be many things.

Cull your ill bird and take good pictures of your processing procedures.

Remove the feathers and take pictures
I need skin pictures of legs and wing tips
Eye pictures both eye balls
full cavity pictures (cut all the way up the breast with a scissors threw the breast bone to the neck. Remove both breast halves of meat
Take a picture of the open cavity..remove one organ at a time and try to keep them intact..gallbladder first. Slice it in half and take a picture of contents.
all organs..good pictures and color
all intestines and one small section cut in half

When you get to the sex organs take pictures before removal, after removal take pictures of lungs before you remove them


Shock can kill a chicken and sometimes they do not recover.
Treat her like she is in shock. I think you plan of isolation and save a chick is a good plan. add raw liver to her feed. She still needs interaction with her flock mates. Try to let her visit daily.

Thank you, her interaction had been part of the debate, but we really want to make sure she is eating and drinking. They go out each afternoon, so she can go out with the rest of the flock then. Does it matter what kind of liver? We were going to use hard boiled egg, but if liver is better then that is what we'll do. The little scrapes already look healed, the scabs have fallen off and the skin is back to normal. Anything else we can do for her?

 

[taylynnp]

hmmm.if I had to guess..it would be heat stroke.
Not cocci looking..not disease looking
She has obvious signs of stress and she is hot..possible infection

Listen to her lungs

Ha, apparently I was the one stressing her out taking pics of her. She flew the coop and is walking around pretty normally and no longer panting. I still see her shaking her head or twitching though. Her lungs sound clear. She is one that doesn't always go out to free range. I think she might be low on the pecking order and seems to prefer to be with herself or at least away from the roos. Today she wouldn't eat when I was in there even. I'll keep her separated into the dog crate with some save a chick electrolytes.

Their coop is extremely well ventilated- grow out hoop house with open air sides and slated front wooden crate at the back for sleeping. It's always shaded. Low 80's today.
But I have been concerned that they aren't drinking a lot of water. I thought maybe it was because of the fermented feed being wet was helping them stay hydrated. But it's still in the back of my mind as a concern. Especially since I thought the first cockerel was heatstroke.

What can I do to encourage them all to drink more water? Maybe they were upset that I stopped the ACV?

I have a dog dish of water and another quart waterer out where they like to hide in the flower bed, plus water in the hoop house.

 

[Leahs Mom]

AFL -
Just a "heads up" on blue kote on that foot.

After I quit putting bandages on my "surgery girl's" foot, I decided that I was going to spray it with blue kote. After I did that I regretted it.

Not because it isn't a good product, but because the blue masked her foot and leg and I couldn't tell if there were changes... like, was it getting red or any signs of infection/change? I couldn't tell because it was covered in blue. And it lasted forever. Even tried to wash it once and it didn't help.

I like to be able to notice changes. Sometimes they're subtle but you can catch something before it escalates. I couldn't tell with the blue kote on there.