The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[aaggjg]

aa - good to hear she's feeling better!!! Pos - Leigh (bulldogma), Delisha, me, SallyinIndiana - and probably others - all have birds in jail

We've all had excessive hawks this fall and some of us have lost birds. I HATE having them confined, but because I have 10 week olds I feel like I'm giving the hawks a free meal if I let them out. Leigh said she had to get several broody's with their kiddos into a confined area and they're not happy. [COLOR=FF0000]Maybe this would be a good time to discuss what, if anything, we do to help break boredom during confinement or winter. Being in close quarters seems to magnify the pecking order issues and they have to figure out how to live together in smaller quarters than when they're out totally free running around.[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]So - What, if anything, do YOU ALL do/change for more confined times or winter? [/COLOR]

LM - speaking of hawks had a morning fly over... Once again looked like a new variety!! I think they've been telling their friends where the chickens are!!! My girls are always in jail. Except for the few hours of free playtime during morning coffee. I worry that they will be bored & start fighting so I try to have things to hold their interest. I bought one of those silly wire greens holder balls to dangle greens for them. Well it's small... And after a few pecks all the greens fall to the ground!!! It got me thinking (insert thinking emoji here) I had bought small wire rectangle bins at 99 cent store. I took 2 of them and joined them together with twisty ties. I fill this with greens (holds a lot more) and the girls love it. Pick it clean!! Not to mention the greens don't fall out! I recently bought a yellow treat ball to give them mealworms. It's a good idea... Then quickly learn to kick it around to make it spill out some worms. Well the darn thing is do poorly constructed!! It is held together with a flimsy rubber and thing. If you drop it to hard or the girls kick it to hard all the treats spill out. I wish the 2 plastic halves locked together. I also sprinkle sprouted grains, leave things like cabbage, pomegranates etc that are work to eat. And try to fill their run with leaves mulch etc to give them something to dig in as well as their dust bath. I also have roosts in the run at different levels for them to investigate. Oooh Hawk cries.... I'm sure hell be back soon. Time to pay attention tithe girls !

 

[CedarAcres]

I just went to let my girls out and a hawk flew over right as I went to reach for the door to the run. Grrr. To keep them occupied ill toss in a cabbage here and there. Piles of leaves for scratching in the run. Ill throw a handful of scratch into the bedding inside the coop so they turn all of it over looking for it (less work for me too!). Move around their stumps in the run which makes them seem so much more interesting to climb on. I tried those green treat holders for greens but they didn't work that well. They are so much happier when they can freerange though.

 

[ki4got]

Quote: yet merlin's never stepped on one. LOL the it's my blind horse who's killed/damaged them all.

 

[Leahs Mom]

How long does it take them to eat a cabbage? Mine LOVE kale and I stuff it into those treat balls. But I'm thinking of getting a couple of the LARGE wire cages (suet feeders) to see how they work since the treat balls are so small. Good to hear you're using them and they're working better!


OKAY - QUESTION
First the background:
A long time ago I had a bag of spelt that began to have some bugs. I put in a good amount of DE and that took care of it right away. Ever since then, I've always put about a cup of DE into my 50 lb grain bags and have never had any bugs since.

Now today, I went down to get stuff to make up some feed, opened the can that has the corn and brought some up. Noticed that it was FULL OF BUGS. I had put a small amount of DE (probably way too small) into the corn bin when I first opened it but apparently not enough.

So, now, I have put about 1.5 cups of it in the bin and put about a cup of it into the corn that I was going to grind today (I make about 20 lbs of feed at a time so that is the corn that I was going to put into the 20 lb batch.)

So the Question:
Do you think there would be any problem going ahead and using the buggy corn to make the ff? After the DE does its work they'll all be dead.

 

[CedarAcres]

It usually takes mine a couple of days to get through the whole cabbage. I have 19 chickens. Mine love kale too. I grow more of it for them than me! I'm going to see how long I can keep some going in the greenhouse for them this winter. My chard never dies but they like the kale so much better.

 

[Rnbwbrite1207]

Popcorn balls are pretty easy to make, sugar and water brought to a boil and some corn syrup. There are lots of recipes but for the chickens you can leave out all the spices and stuff. Although when being lazy I have just used melted marshmallows ( think Rice Krispie treats) it's not really the healthiest treat but it keeps them from picking at each other.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Now today, I went down to get stuff to make up some feed, opened the can that has the corn and brought some up.  Noticed that it was FULL OF BUGS.  I had put a small amount of DE (probably way too small) into the corn bin when I first opened it but apparently not enough. 

So, now, I have put about 1.5 cups of it in the bin and put about a cup of it into the corn that I was going to grind today (I make about 20 lbs of feed at a time so that is the corn that I was going to put into the 20 lb batch.)

This has always confused me and I'm glad I haven't had to deal with it yet ... Buggy feed. It seems we encourage the birds to eat bugs all other places but in their actual feed. Why?

 

[Leahs Mom]

My personal thought on the bugs in the feed is this (but someone correct me if I'm wrong, please!)

-I think the bugs are fine for the birds to eat.

-If the bugs have eaten too much of the feed, it will change the nutritional profile. However, if they can catch the bugs and eat them there may be better nutrition in the bugs (!)

-Oftentimes buggy feed comes with moldy, wet feed. The kind of mold that grows there often has aflatoxin which can be DEADLY. My guess is that folks put "moldy" and "bugs" into the same category and err on the safe side by advising people to get rid of the feed "just in case".

Now, for me, I want them to be dead before sticking it into the fermenting container and I definitely want to stop the infestation in general. My feed is dry (which doesn't really mean that aflatoxin isn't present anyway) but I'm going to assume it is not full of bad mold...




ETA: This is another reason I focus on LACTO-FERMENTATION (which proliferates LABs that produce lactic acid) rather than alcohol fermentation (which proliferates yeasts which produce alcohol, then acetic acid. LACTO-FERMENTATION produces an environment in which many yeasts and molds are kept in check if it is kept in balance with the LABs in dominance.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Another aflatoxin link: http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/PM1800.pdf

 

[delisha]

Just wanted to post some updated pictures of Nugget. Her eye is looking better and she has a beautiful new necklace of feathers. She almost looks like a queen putting on a fancy necklace to distract from her dingy dress

She is obviously feeling better as she has been out longer & longer each day foraging with the girls and she actually didnt go running from me when I moved towards her!!

x

yeah!! her eye is all better..I bet she feels so much relief..no more back ups and chest rubs! You saved her eye...

aa - good to hear she's feeling better!!!
Pos - Leigh (bulldogma), Delisha, me, SallyinIndiana - and probably others - all have birds in jail

We've all had excessive hawks this fall and some of us have lost birds. I HATE having them confined, but because I have 10 week olds I feel like I'm giving the hawks a free meal if I let them out. Leigh said she had to get several broody's with their kiddos into a confined area and they're not happy.

Maybe this would be a good time to discuss what, if anything, we do to help break boredom during confinement or winter. Being in close quarters seems to magnify the pecking order issues and they have to figure out how to live together in smaller quarters than when they're out totally free running around.

So - What, if anything, do YOU ALL do/change for more confined times or winter?

I am fortunate my compound is large. It is probably a 1/4 acre fenced in. The coumpound is not covered, but, I have two runs that are covered. I am not using the runs at this time, but they are there if i ever do need to use them. With two houses and two small coops in the compound area, it does not leave very much area for foraging. The new falling leave really help with keeping them scratching for bugs. I have broke up most of the breeding pens so new alliances are being formed. I have a few who decided to change coops and sleeping places. So they are presently keeping themselves busy with all of the new intermingling. The darn male silkie still runs around trying to breed every thing. I am amazed he is still alive and the other males do not pound him. They just look at him like they are amused.

I have hung popcorn balls and cabbages for them to play with. My kids like to make hanging treats by mixing BOSS and coconut oil into balls and cooling them in the fridge to hang outside. We have also put peanut butter on toilet paper rolls and rolled in crumbles or BOSS and hung. Last year I got them a Flock Block from TSC but it was pretty messy and wasteful.

cabbage is good..popcorn balls would concern me..love the boss and coconut oil. the toilet paper rolls is a fun idea!

I just went to let my girls out and a hawk flew over right as I went to reach for the door to the run. Grrr. To keep them occupied ill toss in a cabbage here and there. Piles of leaves for scratching in the run. Ill throw a handful of scratch into the bedding inside the coop so they turn all of it over looking for it (less work for me too!). Move around their stumps in the run which makes them seem so much more interesting to climb on. I tried those green treat holders for greens but they didn't work that well. They are so much happier when they can freerange though.

darn hawks

How long does it take them to eat a cabbage? Mine LOVE kale and I stuff it into those treat balls. But I'm thinking of getting a couple of the LARGE wire cages (suet feeders) to see how they work since the treat balls are so small. Good to hear you're using them and they're working better!


OKAY - QUESTION
First the background:
A long time ago I had a bag of spelt that began to have some bugs. I put in a good amount of DE and that took care of it right away. Ever since then, I've always put about a cup of DE into my 50 lb grain bags and have never had any bugs since.

Now today, I went down to get stuff to make up some feed, opened the can that has the corn and brought some up. Noticed that it was FULL OF BUGS. I had put a small amount of DE (probably way too small) into the corn bin when I first opened it but apparently not enough.

So, now, I have put about 1.5 cups of it in the bin and put about a cup of it into the corn that I was going to grind today (I make about 20 lbs of feed at a time so that is the corn that I was going to put into the 20 lb batch.)

So the Question:
Do you think there would be any problem going ahead and using the buggy corn to make the ff? After the DE does its work they'll all be dead.

I honestly do not know..I would feel confident if i seen no mold.

My personal thought on the bugs in the feed is this (but someone correct me if I'm wrong, please!)

-I think the bugs are fine for the birds to eat.

-If the bugs have eaten too much of the feed, it will change the nutritional profile. However, if they can catch the bugs and eat them there may be better nutrition in the bugs (!)

-Oftentimes buggy feed comes with moldy, wet feed. The kind of mold that grows there often has aflatoxin which can be DEADLY. My guess is that folks put "moldy" and "bugs" into the same category and err on the safe side by advising people to get rid of the feed "just in case".

Now, for me, I want them to be dead before sticking it into the fermenting container and I definitely want to stop the infestation in general. My feed is dry (which doesn't really mean that aflatoxin isn't present anyway) but I'm going to assume it is not full of bad mold...




ETA: This is another reason I focus on LACTO-FERMENTATION (which proliferates LABs that produce lactic acid) rather than alcohol fermentation (which proliferates yeasts which produce alcohol, then acetic acid. LACTO-FERMENTATION produces an environment in which many yeasts and molds are kept in check if it is kept in balance with the LABs in dominance.

If you see any mold in food...toss it out.