The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[mlowen]

[quote name="lalaland"

They clearly state that chickens have both worms and cocci and that these are only a problem when something else happens:  too much stress, another kind of illness, etc - and even say they could be a positive factor in the chicken's health.
[/quote]

I've read some thing lately (really bad about remembering sources, sorry) that theorizes the rise in auto-immune diseases in people is related to our decrease in parasites. Our immune systems evolved to combat worms and other parasites. Since we keep everything so clean now, our immune systems have nothing to attack. Makes sense to me.

 

[lalaland]

A friend killed a deer on Saturday and gave me the heart & liver for "the girls." I cut the heart into chunks & threw it into my food processor. Did the same with the liver. But OMG so much blood!!! I'm guessing it's because the deer wasn't "bled" like butchered animals are. The heart ground up like hamburger but the liver turned into liquid. I poured it all into containers and froze them. I was wondering about feeding it, later on. Should I mix it with fermented feed, dry grains, scratch, or just give them little bowls of puréed liver?

lucky you!
Personally, I'ld mix the liver soup with dry grains - the fermented is already moist. Liquid works so well to bind stuff together so they eat all of it. It would be great to add to mash, or top dress feed. If you put it in bowls, I'm thinking some would end up wasted, either spilled, or not consumed fast enough.

the ground up heart - easy to use any way you want. nice to have on hand during the winter when they aren't getting bugs, etc.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I've read some thing lately (really bad about remembering sources, sorry) that theorizes the rise in auto-immune diseases in people is related to our decrease in parasites. Our immune systems evolved to combat worms and other parasites. Since we keep everything so clean now, our immune systems have nothing to attack. Makes sense to me.

I've read that too. I've even read that the parasites actually add nutrition that we can't get other ways and the scientific community is now re-thinking the idea that "having any intestinal parasite is bad and should be removed immediately". It's a strange and interesting study and findings. But it would stand to reason that there could be SOME mutually beneficial co-existence for some of the parasites that benefit the host.

I wonder if it is something like the "yeast/bacteria" balance or the "good bacteria/bad bacteria" balance in our systems. If it's in proper balance, we are healthy. If the yeasts or bad bacteria get the upperhand, we are unhealthy. Perhaps it's the same with certain parasites - the they provide a benefit if kept in balance, but can take over and cause destruction if out of balance.

 

[aaggjg]

So my 2 white silkie BFFs must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed this morning! They just had a big fight! Mole my alpha hen jumped in and put them in their place. I have no idea what changed?! Now Penelope keeps looking at Pickles sideways wanting to pick on her. Nugget just jumped in this time. So strange. Maybe someone is going broody that's all I can think .... It's not like she stole her guy as well there aren't any guys

 

[aaggjg]

Nothing like a sick chicken to send you to read everything you can about all the zillions of kinds of ailments that can take a chicken down.

I am really liking the new hampshire extension fact sheets - very simple and clear, and no hysteria/doomsday predictions.   for example, here is the one on internal parasites: http://extension.unh.edu/resources/files/Resource000811_Rep844.pdf

They must have someone like Delisha on staff or maybe Vicki has a twin.  After reading this one, I feel much better about my earlier decision not to worm the rest of my flock even though mrs murphy had a worm overload.

They clearly state that chickens have both worms and cocci and that these are only a problem when something else happens:  too much stress, another kind of illness, etc - and even say they could be a positive factor in the chicken's health.

Lala I'm going to check that out. I lost 2 hens this year. One to aspergillosis & the other one was fat with hemorrhagic lungs. I had necropsies done on both by UC Davis. Both of my reports found worm eggs in the feces. I do all the natural preventative measures we discuss here... From garlic, cayenne, wormwood, to shaklee's soap.... And still they found worm eggs. They didnt report if intestines had worms or what the worm load was. My entire reason for getting chickens was to be natural have happy healthy hens and thus great eggs. I have to keep my hens penned unless I am down with them. Even then I need to keep a close eye as a coyote jumped in my yard when I was 10 feet away!!! (Urban living !!) The more I think about my hens and worms I realize that keeping them penned is not natural ... No matter what I do to try and refresh the soil the fact is there will be an abundance of worms. I'd love to know there was an overload before treating them. The vet by me charges an insane $55 for a fecal!!! I look at their poops for any sign of worms but I haven't seen anything moving... I know that's only when there's an overload but I do have a few hens with really watery poops. I mean liquid!! I can not figure out what it is and have tried everything natural ... So I fear it's worms. They are all acting fine just a few have watery poops... What to do what to do?!

Ok the hens just all freaked out ran for cover but for once I have no idea what they saw. I thought it was a hawk as they were looking up growling a few mins ago but nothing. They way they scattered its like something came in the yard but I saw nothing. Hmmmm.

 

[lalaland]

Lala I'm going to check that out. I lost 2 hens this year. One to aspergillosis & the other one was fat with hemorrhagic lungs. I had necropsies done on both by UC Davis. Both of my reports found worm eggs in the feces. I do all the natural preventative measures we discuss here... From garlic, cayenne, wormwood, to shaklee's soap.... And still they found worm eggs. They didnt report if intestines had worms or what the worm load was. My entire reason for getting chickens was to be natural have happy healthy hens and thus great eggs. I have to keep my hens penned unless I am down with them. Even then I need to keep a close eye as a coyote jumped in my yard when I was 10 feet away!!! (Urban living

!!) The more I think about my hens and worms I realize that keeping them penned is not natural ... No matter what I do to try and refresh the soil the fact is there will be an abundance of worms. I'd love to know there was an overload before treating them. The vet by me charges an insane $55 for a fecal!!! I look at their poops for any sign of worms but I haven't seen anything moving... I know that's only when there's an overload but I do have a few hens with really watery poops. I mean liquid!! I can not figure out what it is and have tried everything natural ... So I fear it's worms. They are all acting fine just a few have watery poops... What to do what to do?!

Ok the hens just all freaked out ran for cover but for once I have no idea what they saw. I thought it was a hawk as they were looking up growling a few mins ago but nothing. They way they scattered its like something came in the yard but I saw nothing. Hmmmm.

based on what I am learning, I wouldn't be worried that the necropsies found worm eggs. I would guess they would have commented if there were was a worm overload or problem, and they identified other reasons for death unrelated to worms.

Someone pointed out to me that they have kept chickens in the same barnyard for decades. And that made me think, yeah, that sounds right....so worms are everywhere. Sounds like your chicken keeping practices are keeping your hens healthy enough so they can handle worms, which are normally present (unless perhaps cage raised...). LIke I said, I'm not going to treat the flock with a wormer, just keep on with the garlic, acv, etc.

 

[aaggjg]

based on what I am learning, I wouldn't be worried that the necropsies found worm eggs.  I would guess they would have commented if there were was a worm overload or problem, and they identified other reasons for death unrelated to worms.

Someone pointed out to me that they have kept chickens in the same barnyard for decades.  And that made me think, yeah, that sounds right....so worms are everywhere.  Sounds like your chicken keeping practices are keeping your hens healthy enough so they can handle worms, which are normally present (unless perhaps cage raised...).  LIke I said, I'm not going to treat the flock with a wormer, just keep on with the garlic, acv, etc.   

I totally agree with that and MLowen & LM's discussion of modern day societies need to over sanitize which is actually hurting us.
It's just the put liquid poo that has me concerned. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. I guess I'll just keep an eye on them and give them some oatmeal .....

 

[MumsyII]

Mumsy,

Well it sure is baffling when you have one that simply drops off. It sounds like heart weakness of some sort. I have never done a biopsy of a heart and I am pretty lost when it comes to why it clots. Doing those autopsy are so important. You know it was not environmental and it was hereditary. Sorry of your loss..

Good to see you..!!

Thank you for the picture..I need to do a bit more around here to help with the darn hawks..I lost so many chicks this year it makes me sick.

Vicki

Yes. It is strange when you find an otherwise robust virile cockerel in good flesh stone cold under the roost with no apparent weakness, illness, or wounds. The first thing I do in necropsy after a thorough external examination is pull the internal organs. His heart was the only thing that looked strange. It was raining and cold on the exam table so I didn't take pictures. I have learned to notice irregularities in the heart and where to carefully slice it open to view the different chambers, aortic valve, and such. That clot was blocking and lodged in the large aortic valve. It was very like a small liver in consistency. The heart lining was covered with a fine white veining that sort of resembled white netting. Have not seen that before. It did not look like any normal chicken heart I've seen. I'm really glad I held back four HRIR males. It is exactly for this reason I needed to wait for choosing breeders.

It always makes me smile to enter my barn yard. Those flags and streamers looks like a party every time there is a breeze. The hawks cruise my neighborhood but I haven't lost a bird since flying the sparkle flags. And I let forty white Silkie chicks free range the orchard and garden everyday. Having said this, now I'll probably get hit. It takes just one really brazen and hungry predator to break the cycle. But so far....Not one loss to predators in over two years.
I don't have a dog or overhead netting. Except for the turkey run. There is a tarp and net over theirs to keep them dry and from flying out and taking a jaunt around the neighborhood. When the turkeys are all in freezer camp, the Silkies will get that run. Wet Silkies are pathetic looking. I need to net and tarp their set up.

 

[delisha]

A friend killed a deer on Saturday and gave me the heart & liver for "the girls." I cut the heart into chunks & threw it into my food processor. Did the same with the liver. But OMG so much blood!!! I'm guessing it's because the deer wasn't "bled" like butchered animals are. The heart ground up like hamburger but the liver turned into liquid. I poured it all into containers and froze them. I was wondering about feeding it, later on. Should I mix it with fermented feed, dry grains, scratch, or just give them little bowls of puréed liver?

score ..
I would not add meat to your ff bucket.
Just break off a chunk and top your ff when you feed.

Nothing like a sick chicken to send you to read everything you can about all the zillions of kinds of ailments that can take a chicken down.

I am really liking the new hampshire extension fact sheets - very simple and clear, and no hysteria/doomsday predictions. for example, here is the one on internal parasites: http://extension.unh.edu/resources/files/Resource000811_Rep844.pdf

They must have someone like Delisha on staff or maybe Vicki has a twin. After reading this one, I feel much better about my earlier decision not to worm the rest of my flock even though mrs murphy had a worm overload.

They clearly state that chickens have both worms and cocci and that these are only a problem when something else happens: too much stress, another kind of illness, etc - and even say they could be a positive factor in the chicken's health.

Thanks for the link!

Quote: I played the video for Joe last night and asked him if he will do that for me next year..he said yes..so I just pray and hope I do not have another bad year.

I am going to try your technique for heart biopsy next time. Thank you for the information.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Mumsy - I'm really glad to hear your hawk streamers are working. I had almost given up on such things but I'm inspired to try again.