The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[RedRidge]

I'm in East TN
The SOP for the RIR is 8.5 lbs for cocks and 6.5 for hens. Rhodebars should be the same.
I am butchering the extra cockerels at 7-9 months simply because that's when it's convenient each fall.

your culling the ones that aren't pure right?what type of genetics WOULD they carry if bred to say a Production Red or a Black Australorp hen?

It totally depends which generations you are asking about. The F1 hens who didn't make the cut for breeding on are single barred and carry 1 wheaten gene and one wildtype gene.
Also keep in mind that production Reds vary and have unpredictable genetics because of the other things crossed into them - especially leg horns from years ago.
One of the reasons out crossing for genetic improvement can take so long is because first you have to establish exactly what gene pairs you are starting with. With the Rhodebars in the US that had been pretty tough for some because the importer immediately began crossing other birds in without fully understanding all the genes. As a matter of fact they say this now right on their Web page. So... First you breed what you have to prove you have what you think you do. Then you begin to cross and may or may not realize there are other genes involved. Deep culling is necessary. But by deep culling that frequently just means song to the laying pen and freezer. Only a few of the best possibilities get to be perpetuated.

 

[RedRidge]

Lalaland. So sorry about the loss. Hopefully some questions will be answered. I've never had poultry necropsied before

 

[Leahs Mom]

@lalaland

Did they tell you how long it would be before they would have results?

 

[Lacy Blues]

lalaland I came across this today and found it interesting and a little familiar with your situation. I hope you get results soon.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/914358/how-do-you-know-if-it-is-botulism#post_13914222

 

[Leahs Mom]

This might be a helpful "quick chart".

area; inflamed vent area; increased appetite

How contracted: Fungal disease; contracted through moldy feed and water and surfaces contaminated by infected birds. Often occurs after antibiotic treatment for other reasons.

Treatment: Yes. Ask a vet for Nystatin or other antifungal medication. Remove moldy feed and disinfect water containers.

Vaccine available: No.


Mycoplasmosis/CRD/Air Sac Disease:

Symptoms: Mild form — weakness and poor laying. Acute form — breathing problems, coughing, sneezing, swollen infected joints, death

How contracted: Mycoplasma disease; contracted through other birds (wild birds carry it); can transmit through egg to chick from infected hen.

Treatment: Antibiotics may save birds — see a vet.

Vaccine available: Yes.



Newcastle Disease:

Symptoms: Wheezing, breathing difficulty, nasal discharge, cloudy eyes, laying stops, paralysis of legs, wings, twisted heads, necks

How contracted: Viral disease; highly contagious; contracted through infected chickens and wild birds and is also carried on shoes, clothes, and surfaces.

Treatment: None. Birds under 6 months usually die; older birds can recover. Recovered birds are not carriers.

Vaccine available: Yes, but the U.S. is working to eradicate the disease.


Omphalitis (Mushy Chick):

Symptoms: Newly hatched chicks — enlarged, bluish, inflamed naval area, bad smell, drowsy, weak chicks

How contracted: Bacterial infection of naval from unclean surfaces or chicks with weak immune systems. Can spread from chick to chick on contaminated surfaces.

Treatment: Antibiotics and clean housing sometimes help, but most chicks will die. Remove healthy chicks immediately to clean quarters.

Vaccine available: None. Use caution handling — staph and strep that cause this disease may infect humans.



Pullorum:

Symptoms: Chicks are inactive, may have white diarrhea with pasted rear ends, breathing difficulty, or die without symptoms. Older birds — coughing, sneezing, poor laying.

How contracted: Viral disease; contracted through carrier birds and contaminated surfaces, clothing, and shoes.

Treatment: Destroy all infected birds — birds that recover are carriers. Most chicks infected will die.

Vaccine available: No vaccine, but there is a blood test to find carriers. While the U.S. is trying to eradicate this disease, buy chickens from Pullorum-negative flocks only.

 

[lalaland]

From what I've seen, when you take a bird for necropsy and you tell them what you "think" it might be, that is generally always the result they give you. I don't know if everybody is really that smart or they don't test and just confirm your suspicions.

You have a chance at the pullets you got. I'd start treating them right away lalaland.

I was going to ask you about that! I thought about your turkey manure method of vaccinating - that is probably doable. RIght now with my life, catching 11 pullets, of whom 6 are extremely skittish, twice a day and administering the st johns wort to the roof of their beak is not possible during the work week. But I could do the turkey manure. I'm reading up on what else to do....apparently stress will trigger mareks, or the general immune system is so compromised that they are susceptible to worms, cocci, etc.

That has never been my experience when necropsy has been done by a state poultry lab or by a university. A very detailed report is always given showing all the testing that was done and the results. Sometimes results confirm my suspicions with the benefit of giving me a specific diagnosis, other times I have been completely surprised at the findings. It has been a very valuable tool for me.

That is good to hear. I've never heard from anyone that they got a detailed report back, saving one person on BYC, and you.

I did a state lab necropsy last year. I got a report back, unsure whether to call it detailed or not....
I will call and make sure they determine whether or not it was mareks.
thanks

 

[Lacy Blues]

Good! I think it is the quickest and best route. Hopefully you know someone who has healthy turkeys?

 

[armorfirelady]

Raked up shavings from cutting wood & grass clippings and tossed them in the coop. Girls are busy, busy moving it around. Along with the hay & weeds I tossed in the compost. I don't think I've seen them so quiet in a long time. They are very busy concentrating on digging thru the hay and weeds lol

I transplanted my cabbage, beans and peppers to the side of the garden. They are all still growing. I want to get the cover crop down this weekend in the garden. It's suppose to be 80 on Tuesday !!

 

[Shan30]

I was going to ask you about that!  I thought about your turkey manure method of vaccinating - that is probably doable.  RIght now with my life, catching 11 pullets, of whom 6 are extremely skittish, twice a day and administering the st johns wort to the roof of their beak is not possible during the work week.  But I could do the turkey manure.   I'm reading up on what else to do....apparently stress will trigger mareks, or the general immune system is so compromised that they are susceptible to worms, cocci, etc.


I did a state lab necropsy last year.  I got a report back, unsure whether to call it detailed or not....
I will call and make sure they determine whether or not it was mareks.
thanks

So sorry Lala..as much as it sounds like Mareks I am hoping you get some other diagnosis back in that report.

When I have sent in whole birds for necropsy I receive an extremely detailed lab report. We also contacted the lab directly as asked if they would accept blood that we had drawn ourselves. They said it was highly unusual but sure. At $3 per sample per test and without having to cull the bird this is a great option. It might be worth looking into for the future. I would have done exactly what you did with this boy in this particular circumstance however.

Since we ended up on a first name basis with one of the avian vets there I also asked him about mareks vaccine when I was purchasing some certified birds out of the US. I was concerned that if I agreed to the vaccine, the vaccinated birds would shed the virus to the rest of my flock. As it turns out, this is not true. Unless of course the vaccinated birds contract mareks after being vaccinated, don't show symptoms due to said vaccine and then pass it on. The vaccine will not make them carriers. Both forms of the virus used for vaccination cannot infect other birds.

I have no idea if the turkey thing works I know the turkey virus is used in the creation of the vaccine but you can always ask while your talking to the people performing your necropsy.

Does anyone know if a bird has ever tested positive for mareks, been treated with St. John's Wort, recovered and tested negative? I was under the impression that there was no cure for Mareks and that you could only treat the symptoms.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I cannot provide case studies regarding the St. Johnswort. I was told it works. I have seen it online in other places since then and they said the same things, including the treatment regime.

I don't need a case study or a veterinarian to tell me the turkey manure works. My proof is out in my yard... Marek's free for 9 years.