The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[lalaland]

just listened to a cdc guy talk about salmonella in backyard flocks. Very much of the mindset that you should do everything possible to never ever risk salmonella. no chickens in house. no washing of chickens, chicken dishes, etc in house. no kissing chickens (apparently the recent outbreak in 2014 which involved mt hatchery had some kids with chicks who kissed the chicks...). Apparently salmonella lives for a long time, how long he wasn't sure of.

Someone asked, well what is the incidence of people contracting salmonella compared to the incidence of people who come into contact with chickens. He said very high.

About egg washing, said you should wash your eggs, and then disinfect your sink!. plus your counters or anything that the egg washing water would splash on.

huh. I must have a heck of an immune system (knock on wood). Maybe if I had infants or really young kids under 5, I would be maybe more careful. But....all that stuff that says the kids on farms with animals are much healthier and have fewer allergies and immune system issues than kids on farms without animals...who are better off than kids in homes with pets, who are better off than kids in homes and no pets, and everyone is better off than kids in homes with no pets and lots of disinfecting going on with various antibacterial soaps and disfectant wipes, etc.

anyway, one thing I came accross: It is also best to store the eggs large end up. When storing with the small end up, the yolk tends to get stuck in the small end and will break when the egg is cracked open.

 

[lalaland]

OHHHHHHH dandelioness posted her feed recipe - no wheat no corn no soy!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/947979/conventional-non-gmo-whole-grain-seed-recipe-for-layers

 

[ronott1]

just listened to a cdc guy talk about salmonella in backyard flocks. Very much of the mindset that you should do everything possible to never ever risk salmonella. no chickens in house. no washing of chickens, chicken dishes, etc in house. no kissing chickens (apparently the recent outbreak in 2014 which involved mt hatchery had some kids with chicks who kissed the chicks...). Apparently salmonella lives for a long time, how long he wasn't sure of.

Someone asked, well what is the incidence of people contracting salmonella compared to the incidence of people who come into contact with chickens. He said very high.

About egg washing, said you should wash your eggs, and then disinfect your sink!. plus your counters or anything that the egg washing water would splash on.

huh. I must have a heck of an immune system (knock on wood). Maybe if I had infants or really young kids under 5, I would be maybe more careful. But....all that stuff that says the kids on farms with animals are much healthier and have fewer allergies and immune system issues than kids on farms without animals...who are better off than kids in homes with pets, who are better off than kids in homes and no pets, and everyone is better off than kids in homes with no pets and lots of disinfecting going on with various antibacterial soaps and disfectant wipes, etc.

anyway, one thing I came accross: It is also best to store the eggs large end up. When storing with the small end up, the yolk tends to get stuck in the small end and will break when the egg is cracked open.

The Guy does not know what he is talking about. It is very unlikely that your backyard flock has salmonella. The only cased over the last several years came from Mt. Healthy chickens.

When a chicken dies at my place, I send it off for a free Necropsy. I have always been ecoli and salmonella free.

 

[potagergirl]

It has been an interesting day......Mr. Blue my only blue lf cochin rooster past away. I think because he was the most docile one I have and the WCBP roosters wouldn't let him eat while we were gone for the week. The person I had watching them didn't say anything was wrong so it was quite a shock to find him ill and then to have him pass away this morning.

Then this afternoon I went to get eggs and there weren't any. However one hen was laying or so I thought....
I went out this evening to get the eggs and she has 9 under her. ?no eggs this morning when I was filling water and feed and 9 under her
tonight?? someone has been hiding eggs.... Anyway she took to sitting them today.
My first broody hen. I have eggs ordered I want to have under her but I'm sure they won't arrive until the end of the week or next week and it's not even enough eggs only 6. What do I do now? Do I take the eggs and hope she tries again when I get the ones I've ordered?
I'm not sure if I should cry over Mr. Blue or be happy I have a broody....

 

[Leahs Mom]

On the salmonella... IT IS EVERYWHERE. Even on you.

From what I can find, it's only a problem when it's an antibiotic-resistant strain which, if your chickens have been raised with "natural" principles, they shouldn't be having exposure to antibiotics and would have way less chance of super-bugs.

Most people handle salmonella without even knowing they've been exposed because it just isn't an issue. UNLESS it's an anti-biotic resistant strain. Sometimes someone that is very weak from other disease can have problems with it, but it's usually the same issue...too much exposure to antibiotics and the strain they're dealing with can easily overcome an immune system that's compromised...sometimes by the antibiotics themselves, unfortunately.

So..
I have much more confidence in the eggs from the chickens that I raise here than eggs from CAFOs where they're raised under unhealthy condition.

They have fresh air and sunshine, lots of variety of feed, compost, etc( mostly organic ingredients) a healthy run when they have to be confined that has a great deep litter going, sometimes fermented feed, probiotics on occasion, etc., etc.... And never any antibiotics routinely.

I'd bet on my eggs any day. We eat them raw - even my elderly dad has them raw on occasion. And they usually stay right on the kitchen counter unless I'm selling them - then they go in the fridge.

 

[potagergirl]

I'm curious because I get nagged when I leave mine out over night.
How long can you leave them on the counter? Is there a temp you expect them to stay at? I'm just curious.

 

[ronott1]

I'm curious because I get nagged when I leave mine out over night.
How long can you leave them on the counter? Is there a temp you expect them to stay at? I'm just curious.

They can stay out of the fridge for several weeks.

I collect for up to three days and clean them if they are dirty and then refrigerate them.

 

[lazy gardener]

It has been an interesting day......Mr. Blue my only blue lf cochin rooster past away. I think because he was the most docile one I have and the WCBP roosters wouldn't let him eat while we were gone for the week. The person I had watching them didn't say anything was wrong so it was quite a shock to find him ill and then to have him pass away this morning.

Then this afternoon I went to get eggs and there weren't any. However one hen was laying or so I thought....
I went out this evening to get the eggs and she has 9 under her. ?no eggs this morning when I was filling water and feed and 9 under her
tonight?? someone has been hiding eggs.... Anyway she took to sitting them today.
My first broody hen. I have eggs ordered I want to have under her but I'm sure they won't arrive until the end of the week or next week and it's not even enough eggs only 6. What do I do now? Do I take the eggs and hope she tries again when I get the ones I've ordered?
I'm not sure if I should cry over Mr. Blue or be happy I have a broody....

Check her tonight to be sure she stays on them. If she is dedicated: stays on them both day and night, it sounds like she's committed to the task. So, the new eggs will be arriving after she's been sitting for about 5 days? You'll want to let them set for 24 hours to settle before popping them under her. Do you have an incubator? Can you get hold of one? The most important thing is to keep the rest of the flock from sneaking more eggs into her nest. If I was faced with this dilemma, this is what I'd do: I'd let her set those eggs until the new ones arrive. Then I'd let those new ones rest at room temp, undisturbed for 24 hours. Then: If I didn't have an incubator, I'd remove the old eggs, and slip in the new eggs. The problem with letting her have both the old and the new is that when the old eggs hatch, she'll abandon the nest with the new eggs which are 5 days younger. But, if you had an incubator, you could let her sit on the old eggs until the new ones come in, then swap them out... or not. You could incubate one batch while she sets on the other one. It would be a stretch, but I would be hopeful that when the bator eggs hatch, they could be popped under her to join the first batch... or held until her eggs hatch, then popped under her. Chances are that some of her eggs won't hatch. Shipped eggs have a poorer hatch rate. So, if she accepted both batches of chicks, you'd have a nice big clutch of chicks. Some folks would let her sit on the old eggs until the new eggs come in, then just toss the old eggs. Somehow, I'd have a hard time reconciling myself to doing it that way.

 

[lalaland]

I'm curious because I get nagged when I leave mine out over night.
How long can you leave them on the counter? Is there a temp you expect them to stay at? I'm just curious.

they are fine without refrigeration. In europe , it was england I think, it is illegal to refrigerate them, and they are at room temp.
If it was really hot, say in the high 80's, I would throw them in the frig. otherwise, I have 15 years or something close to it of never putting them in the frig and they have always been fine. I think the longest they have sat out has been 3-4 weeks.

I do refrigerate any I am selling but only because some people worry. (those are the same folks who throw out the ketchup when it is past the sell date).

 

[armorfirelady]

just listened to a cdc guy talk about salmonella in backyard flocks.  Very much of the mindset that you should do everything possible to never ever risk salmonella.  no chickens in house. no washing of chickens, chicken dishes, etc in house.  no kissing chickens (apparently the recent outbreak in 2014 which involved mt hatchery had some kids with chicks who kissed the chicks...). Apparently salmonella lives for a long time, how long he wasn't sure of.  

Someone asked, well what is the incidence of people contracting salmonella compared to the incidence of people who come into contact with chickens.  He said very high.

About egg washing, said you should wash your eggs, and then disinfect your sink!.  plus your counters or anything that the egg washing water would splash on.

huh.   I must have a heck of an immune system (knock on wood).  Maybe if I had infants or really young kids under 5, I would be maybe more careful.  But....all that stuff that says the kids on farms with animals are much healthier and have fewer allergies and immune system issues than kids on farms without animals...who are better off than kids in homes with pets, who are better off than kids in homes and no pets, and everyone is better off than kids in homes with no pets and lots of disinfecting going on with various antibacterial soaps and disfectant wipes, etc.

anyway, one thing I came accross:  [COLOR=333333] It is also best to store the eggs large end up. When storing with the small end up, the yolk tends to get stuck in the small end and will break when the egg is cracked open.[/COLOR]

Just my opinion but I believe it's a bunch of malarkey. How the heck did they survive before they had chemical cleaners and refrigeration? And how did chickens ever survive back in the day without being cleaned every day? I believe there would be less antibiotic resistance bugs if people just used good old soap and water to clean up, Heck I would be deathly ill or dead by now if samonella was that rampant'. Lol

On the salmonella... IT IS EVERYWHERE.  Even on you.

From what I can find, it's only a problem when it's an antibiotic-resistant strain which, if your chickens have been raised with "natural" principles, they shouldn't be having exposure to antibiotics and would have way less chance of super-bugs.

Most people handle salmonella without even knowing they've been exposed because it just isn't an issue.  UNLESS it's an anti-biotic resistant strain.  Sometimes someone that is very weak from other disease can have problems with it, but it's usually the same issue...too much exposure to antibiotics and the strain they're dealing with can easily overcome an immune system that's compromised...sometimes by the antibiotics themselves, unfortunately.

So..
I have much more confidence in the eggs from the chickens that I raise here than eggs from CAFOs where they're raised under unhealthy condition. 

They have fresh air and sunshine, lots of variety of feed, compost, etc( mostly organic ingredients) a healthy run when they have to be confined that has a great deep litter going, sometimes fermented feed, probiotics on occasion, etc., etc....  And never any antibiotics routinely.

I'd bet on my eggs any day.  We eat them raw - even my elderly dad has them raw on occasion.  And they usually stay right on the kitchen counter unless I'm selling them - then they go in the fridge.

I completely agree with you.

"I'd bet on my eggs any day.  We eat them raw - even my elderly dad has them raw on occasion.  And they usually stay right on the kitchen counter unless I'm selling them - then they go in the fridge."

I'm curious because I get nagged when I leave mine out over night.
How long can you leave them on the counter? Is there a temp you expect them to stay at? I'm just curious.

Mine never see the refrigerator unless I have to leave them at work for a co worker. Or maybe if the temps get above 80 but normally they stay good in the cupboards where it's cooler. I also store them in a cooler for the extras I sell from home. No ice in it just sits in the shade.