The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[COChix]

Hello, so got my Ovascope last night and was able to candle. Used my iPhone for the shots.

our eggs clears and early quitter

Fertile - still super hard to see into the dark eggs and the green very much. Just selected the better photos.

Lockdown is today and here are the stats.

We have 28/42 heading into lockdown.

From PC's eggs -
2/14 fertile - blue eggs should be Amerecauna's

From our flock
26/28 fertile

15/15 of our BO x EE were fertile
11/13 of the BO x our brown egg layers
1 clear
1 early quitter

OMG, I cannot believe this! I am so eggcited! Gotta take the turner out today and get the second bator (we will use for holding chicks durning hatching, if needed) running.

Any last couple days advice? I am so nervous and so proud of Rocco and our flock. I cannot believe I will have some chicks soon.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I'm very "ignorant" of how to determine development so I have a question.

How did you know the one was an "early quitter" rather than just a slower developing embrio?

 

[Lacy Blues]

yeah, the scary thing in Minnesota is that the first outdoor flock was found with AI earlier this week. Guineas and chickens, but a large flock of 130. W have been wondering about the conditions of the 130 flock - thinking it is unlikely that they are on good pasture because of the size of the flock, but maybe.
The commercial farms are leaning towards it being windborne - as the biosecurity stuff was all in place, and while there could have been some missteps, they are thinking wind.

The turkey hunters are being asked to report about any dead turkeys or waterfowl or birds they come accross, but I haven't heard anything about anything getting AI or being dead, other than these affected farms. DNR has also been collecting wild geese and duck droppings to test fecees for AI, but has come up totally negative . They concentrated on counties and areas near AI infected farms. Baited with corn, came back after to collect the droppings left by the birds attracted to the corn. As of late last week, NO AI was found that way.


Speedee delivery has halted all transportation of chicks and adult fowl in MN. It has kind of messed up somethings for local breeders. I know of several that have stopped hatching (early in their hatching season) to wait things out, and I've heard from others in MN that have changed their own egg selling practices. People are not letting others come to their homes/barns to pick up eggs or chickens...meeting in town, etc. which is good biosecurity anyway, but a new step for many.

I wonder about lice or mites being a form of infection? These pests survive on body fluids. I wonder if they're anything like mosquitoes in that every time they bite they inject some of the stuff that is already in them? I know with mosquitoes it probably has to do with being able to suck fluids up a proboscis? I've never studied the mouth parts of lice or mites so I really have no idea what I'm talking about. It just crossed my mind as a possible avenue. All it takes is one to fall off a bird flying over and land on your bird in your yard or the roof of your building to infest your bird with them.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I'm very "ignorant" of how to determine development so I have a question.

How did you know the one was an "early quitter" rather than just a slower developing embrio?

See the solid blood line and very dark blob? They call that a bacteria ring which is kind of silly in my opinion. A developing little body really is more than a bacteria. Anyway, it died and the "bacteria ring" tells the tale.

 

[COChix]

I'm very "ignorant" of how to determine development so I have a question.

How did you know the one was an "early quitter" rather than just a slower developing embrio?

Well the egg just didn't look right last time I candled at day 14, but I left it in to see if it changed at all. This is my first incubation/hatch and I wasn't really sure what was going on with that egg. So I had to research. Sometimes they will have a blood ring that you can see. See how the other eggs, I know it is hard to see in some pics, but you can see the veining. Then look back at the early quitter and you can see there isn't really nice plump veining in it. Since it was my first attempt, I basically went with looking at the eggs and then looking for any eggs that didn't look like the others, as far as development goes. I would then research pictures of various hatches and bad egg pics to determine what was going on. That is how I figured out it was an early quitter, but the lack of veining is the first clue.

 

[COChix]

See the solid blood line and very dark blob?  They call that a bacteria ring which is kind of silly in my opinion.  A developing little body really is more than a bacteria.  Anyway, it died and the "bacteria ring" tells the tale.

Thanks for the more scientific reason this egg quit.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Thanks @Lacy Blues and @COChix

Helpful info to me!

 

[atmaclean]

Regarding fermenting of pelleted feed. I do it. At first I kept it too wet and it was a terrible mess and I hated having to deal with it. Finally, I stopped adding so much water. Here is a picture of my fermenting feed. It's a 5 gal bucket. I add BOSS and rolled barley for texture and interest, only to the evening feed. You can see the lighter bits of barley in it. This was just started a few hours ago, right after feeding the birds their dinner. This bucket has been going for several months, probably more like at least a year. I use half to two thirds of it for a single feeding and add more back to it when I come back in. I put approximately the same level of water as feed each time I add... maybe slightly less water. And this is the way it comes out... it's thick and moist and they love it. Sorry for the blurriness, it was pretty close to the camera. Regarding feeding the fermented grains, I would just limit the amount I give them. You can still use it to bring the birds in when needed. In fact, if they are free ranging all day and get lots of exercise, I wouldn't worry too much about it... limit the amount and they will work it off. It will unbalance the amount of protein they get. If you feed a 16% feed, they are barely getting enough anyway, however, since they free range they probably get a little bit more. The fermenting process makes the protein in the feed more available to the bird as fermenting is a form of "pre-digestion" and it's broken down some already and since the birds have such a quick digestive process, this is an important help.

Thanks so much! That is very helpful and the pics are super helpful so I know the consistency to shoot for. Do you just add water or do you also add the acv with mother?

 

[Lacy Blues]

Thanks so much! That is very helpful and the pics are super helpful so I know the consistency to shoot for. Do you just add water or do you also add the acv with mother?

When I first started the fermenting, I used the ACV with mother to jump start the process (I'm not terribly patient is some scenarios). I also use yogurt from time to time. When I first started, I used a couple of "glugs" from the bottle after shaking it up to distribute the mother. I think back then I probably added acv with every addition of feed/water but not so much. Just a small bit poured into the water before adding that to the bucket. I use yogurt the same way, stir it up with a whisk and then pour it into a small amount of water and mix it again so there are no big blobs of it, then add water to the desired level to then pour that into your ferment bucket and stir well.

If you use yogurt, be sure to get the kind that is plain and unsweetened with as many varieties of cultures you can find. Buttermilk will work too in a pinch.

 

[atmaclean]

When I first started the fermenting, I used the ACV with mother to jump start the process (I'm not terribly patient is some scenarios). I also use yogurt from time to time. When I first started, I used a couple of "glugs" from the bottle after shaking it up to distribute the mother. I think back then I probably added acv with every addition of feed/water but not so much. Just a small bit poured into the water before adding that to the bucket. I use yogurt the same way, stir it up with a whisk and then pour it into a small amount of water and mix it again so there are no big blobs of it, then add water to the desired level to then pour that into your ferment bucket and stir well.

If you use yogurt, be sure to get the kind that is plain and unsweetened with as many varieties of cultures you can find. Buttermilk will work too in a pinch.

OK, great. That is what I needed. Thank you for taking the time to respond! I will occasionally add ACV with mother to my grain ferment - especially when I've had to add a bunch of water to get the level back up to cover the grains. Sounds like it might be similar when fermenting the pelleted feed.

I will also look for a higher protein pellet. When you mentioned that, I read some more on the protein level and realized I needed a protein level closer to 20% for the girls. I think we can get an 18%. There is a mill about an hour from us that makes an "all-natural 20%" so I may see if we can get that. If we did a monthly trip, it wouldn't be so bad.

Do most of you feed a commercial pellet or do you make some kind of grain mix on your own? I'm fearful that I would not get the nutrients in a self-made mix correct...