The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[JanetMarie]

Okay... but the SDS for neem oil says not to get it on skin so I'd surely be cautious using it on the body.... Unless someone has some other information?


From MSDS:


Although this mentions using on skin, there are a LOT of cautions...including issues with fertility/endocrine. Advised not to use with children (Chickens are much smaller than children):
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...iveIngredientId=577&activeIngredientName=NEEM




Anyhow...whenever I've read about using neem, it was on roosts, etc., but not directly on the bird itself. Has anyone read anything that states safety/toxicity issues for use directly on a bird?

There's a natural toothpaste with neem oil in it called Theraneem, so I think it would be safe if a company can sell it put in people's mouths.

 

[lazy gardener]

It may be so diluted in the tooth paste that it's a non issue. If OP is using it full strength, that's a whole other issue.

 

[mrsruzek]

This thread stuck out to me, as I am just a beginner at this backyard chicken-ing thing! We just got our first flock a couple of weeks ago, and I want our eggs to be non GMO, antibiotic free, and organic. Having that said, is vaccinating necessary? What about de-worming? Are there any other basics I need to know about keeping my hens "natural?"

 

[Leahs Mom]

It may be so diluted in the tooth paste that it's a non issue. If OP is using it full strength, that's a whole other issue.

Yes, that was my point exactly. When you look at cosmetics, etc., the amount of neem in them is pretty small and always diluted with other items. Even skin creams I looked at are mostly other oils with a small percent of neem.

So my questioning is really referring to using a full strength, not dilute neem oil on a pretty small animal that will have to assimilate that through the skin and also the fumes.

 

[Leahs Mom]

This thread stuck out to me, as I am just a beginner at this backyard chicken-ing thing! We just got our first flock a couple of weeks ago, and I want our eggs to be non GMO, antibiotic free, and organic. Having that said, is vaccinating necessary? What about de-worming? Are there any other basics I need to know about keeping my hens "natural?"

Good to have you!

I don't have a lot of time right now to make a really good comment that backs up my practices. But I will say that I DO NOT vaccinate any of my chicks/chickens, and I do my best not to bring any vaccinated birds onto my property.

In 4 years of chickens here I haven't wormed them; no symptoms of worms and I don't worm routinely. I personally would only worm after having a fecal done by a vet to confirm that is an issue as wormers can weaken the system and cause more problems than necessary if not needed.

There are others on this thread that do worm; some have seen evidence or been tested as needed. In that case I would use one of the herbal wormers that are proven and don't tend to cause the same issues as chemical wormers.

Different folks have different situations. I have a good amount of area for them to run in; others don't. But there are good ways to keep the ground in a "run" situation healthy vs. a slimy, packed dirt situation. A good deep litter in the run keeps things much more healthy and can greatly reduce the need for any worming intervention.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I don't vaccinate, I don't worm, we cull anything that can't get well on its own, we free range and I agree, the more crowded and confined the more likely you are to have problems, brood them cleanly, let them slowly get used to your lands organisms and build an immunity to things, I haven't seen many problems in my flock, let chickens be chickens.

 

[shortgrass]

Okay... but the SDS for neem oil says not to get it on skin so I'd surely be cautious using it on the body.... Unless someone has some other information?


From MSDS:

 
Although this mentions using on skin, there are a LOT of cautions...including issues with fertility/endocrine.  Advised not to use with children (Chickens are much smaller than children):
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...iveIngredientId=577&activeIngredientName=NEEM




Anyhow...whenever I've read about using neem, it was on roosts, etc., but not directly on the bird itself.  Has anyone read anything that states safety/toxicity issues for use directly on a bird?

It depends on which extract, @Leahs Mom...

First, there's Neem oil. It's cold pressed oil from the plant, and it contains the active phenol, Azadirachtin.

Then there's clarified hydrophobic extract. It has no Azadirachtin, but still has antifungal, pesticide, and miticide properties.

There's straight extract if Azadirachtin, which we use in the fields. Highly toxic.

And then there's Neem powder, or cake. It's the leftover plant material and is used for anything from shampoo and trace mineral supplement to, you got it, toothpaste

I use it on roosts sometimes, but not directly on the birds. My main target use for it is the garden and fields, though.


Here's a link for its use as a wormer even
http://journals.cambridge.org/abstract_S1751731107000730

 

[JanetMarie]

This thread stuck out to me, as I am just a beginner at this backyard chicken-ing thing! We just got our first flock a couple of weeks ago, and I want our eggs to be non GMO, antibiotic free, and organic. Having that said, is vaccinating necessary? What about de-worming? Are there any other basics I need to know about keeping my hens "natural?"

I never vaccinate, and do not add vaccinated chicks to my flock, and don't take in adult birds from other flocks. I've never used a chemical wormer, and they get some natural worm repellents. They are in a free range area, and stay pretty safe as long as they don't go too far away. The older birds like to stay up close to the house, so the younger ones copy them. I drive an hour away to buy whole organic peas and wheat, and organic alfalfa meal, which I grind then mix in the extras (no synthetic vitamins) for nutrition. It works pretty good in the past 8 years of keeping chickens.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I have not used Neem on my birds yet... however I have used oils on myself over the years, the advice on understanding the oils and dilution of essential oil & extracts is important when using such products.

Neem sticks can often be purchased from ethnic food stores (Indian and Muslim food stores often carry it). The tree has tons of uses, humans use the sticks to chew on and use as a natural toothbrush with tons of anti-tooth decay stuff being released... I personally used the sticks to quit smoking ages ago (over 20 years). It is really about common sense a little bit goes a long way, more is not always better, and simply becuase something can be toxic if consumed in huge or concentrated quantities (even H2O can kill you if you drink too much at once) does not mean it can not be used, or grown in your backyard... you got to research a bit.

If you have a plant in the yard that the chickens have been around for years and you find a list saying it is a "no-no" plant don't panic, if they have not been eating said plant for years they are probably not going to start.

Also I am unsure how some plants make the "no-no" lists. Sometimes you can find out why sometimes not so much.

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsruzek

This thread stuck out to me, as I am just a beginner at this backyard chicken-ing thing! We just got our first flock a couple of weeks ago, and I want our eggs to be non GMO, antibiotic free, and organic. Having that said, is vaccinating necessary? What about de-worming? Are there any other basics I need to know about keeping my hens "natural?"

I feed my flock fermented feed, do not get on the band wagon re: non GMO as far as chicken feed goes. They have never had medicated feed. I've never had issues with coccidiosis. Chicks are exposed during the first week to plugs of sod from my yard to help them develop a healthy gut flora, as well as to start exposure to coccidiosis organisms. During the first 2 weeks after hatch, that is when they have the highest natural immunity received from their mother. That's the most optimum time IMO to work on gentle exposure, and work on building a healthy gut flora. Have never de-wormed. I think if faced with evidence of a worm load, I'd go with a natural product, like Basic H soap. Farmers have used that for years in all livestock. Worms can not build resistance to it. Vaccination: I'm thankful for having a good population of wild turkeys that frequent my yard. They carry a less virulent strain of Marecks disease, which helps flocks to build immunity to fight off the tougher viruses in that family. Other diseased covered by vaccination: I keep a closed flock, do not allow any thing in other than eggs or day old chicks, and am working on becoming totally independent of hatchery stock. Making great strides in that arena with a greatly varied gene pool, producing a colorful egg basket, small combs, non-feathered feet. Great for my northern climate.