The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Leahs Mom]

Wanted to post this so you'd be aware of what's going on and can pass is on as appropriate.

REPOSTS FROM THE INDIANA THREAD
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/730582/indiana-bycers-here/2820#post_10668903

Quote:

 

[Leahs Mom]

Mumsy - I LOVE that basket idea!!!

 

[lalaland]

Mumsy, I too am wishing your little silkie well.

Completely off topic, but going WAY back to when Deep litter was being discussed, I thought I remember reading a recommendation from Bee not to clean out a coop while using deep litter, except maybe once a year? Maybe I am wrong and read that someplace else? So when you are talking about cleaning out the deep litter is that what you are doing?

I use DL too, we still have freezing temps here (a little bit of thawing every few days). And I haven't really cleaned out any all winter. The warmer days the last few weeks I have been going out and pulling out some of the straw under the roosts and tossing it out on the snow to help melt it, but that is the extent of my cleaning it so far this winter..... Am I doing it wrong? It doesn't smell....

I think using DL is a little different in warmer climates than it is in where the poop is frozen for 5 or more months out of the year. DL can include the litter and poop breaking down into compost assuming there is enough moisture. But, where I live, there are a couple of issues:
1. in the winter, say Oct thru March/April, the poop freezes. that stops any compost process.
2. in the summer, the hens are hardly in the coop, so the amount of poop is limited, making for an incorrect ratio of brown to green, carbon to nitrogen
3. in the summer, it is dry, and there isn't enough moisture for the composting process to start.. I'm not interested in adding moisture to the coop.
4. in the winter, the frozen poop makes a crust too hard for the chickens to scratch into to mix it up, requiring human intervention.

So, my northern form of DL is this: start with fresh hay in the fall, add more to the litter to cover poop as needed, so it is definitely layered. Come spring, remove enough to make room, and keep going. This fall, I did try leaving the entire summer accumulation just to see if it would be able to offset the freezing temps enough to start composting - my real compost pile works in the winter because of the quantity, and you can see it steaming under the snow. I was hoping sufficient mass would make it work, but it didn't.

Next fall, I will clean it out. It is so deep in there now.

eta: I read the excellent link leahsmom provided - I would add just one thing - that while the purpose of DL is not to make compost, it is the process of the material breaking down that provides the best benefits.

I don't think you are doing it wrong - just differently than you would if you lived on the west coast, or southern states.

 

[Pozees]

I think using DL is a little different in warmer climates than it is in where the poop is frozen for 5 or more months out of the year. DL can include the litter and poop breaking down into compost assuming there is enough moisture. But, where I live, there are a couple of issues:
1. in the winter, say Oct thru March/April, the poop freezes. that stops any compost process.
2. in the summer, the hens are hardly in the coop, so the amount of poop is limited, making for an incorrect ratio of brown to green, carbon to nitrogen
3. in the summer, it is dry, and there isn't enough moisture for the composting process to start.. I'm not interested in adding moisture to the coop.
4. in the winter, the frozen poop makes a crust too hard for the chickens to scratch into to mix it up, requiring human intervention.

So, my northern form of DL is this: start with fresh hay in the fall, add more to the litter to cover poop as needed, so it is definitely layered. Come spring, clean the whole thing out and start fresh. This fall, I did try leaving the summer accumulation just to see if it would be able to offset the freezing temps enough to start composting - my real compost pile works in the winter because of the quantity, and you can see it steaming under the snow. I was hoping sufficient mass would make it work, but it didn't.

Next fall, I will clean it out. It is so deep in there now.

I don't think you are doing it wrong - just differently than you would if you lived on the west coast, or southern states.

Yes, I think the management of DL is heavily climate-dependent. Here in Southern Colorado we had a longer freeze than the last several years, and the girls would nestle down into the litter some days to lay their eggs, so I have to believe there was at least insulation value if nothing else - some days I would open the human access door and they would have kicked the litter several inches up the door (4x8 coop 2 feet off the ground, 4 feet high) so it definitely got moved around those days. A few times I moved it around when it seemed it was concentrated on one side of the coop, I tried to spread it back out and covered it with a new layer of shavings, then they would move it around some more. So far only one time I added shavings did I detect any odor, and it was faint. Come spring I'll probably remove around half and replace with fresh shavings, but it is very arid here, so regardless I won't get a whole lot of decomposition until I put it on the compost pile and water it down a few times. It's fine though, as long as I don't have odor it's all good as far as I'm concerned!

 

[delisha]

I removed half of my deep litter yesterday and put it in the duck run. Duck nesting season is here and I do not want them laying in the coop. I have one inside on a nest and that is enough. The rest can nest outside later in the year. The one inside made a nice small nest. She is setting on 6 eggs. Very unusual to have such a small nest of eggs.

I moved all my Orpingtons and all the chicks in the big coop after my clean out. All the chicks are with one mom now. She is not crazy about the new chicks but tolerates them. I hope today she has softened to them and maybe even adopts them. The mom of the older group went back to laying and even went looking for a new nesting sight yesterday.

I am going to move the 3 week old chicks outside this weekend. I am so looking forward to that. My dust level in my house has risen to intolerable.

Between Friday and Easter Sunday I will be hatching out at least 60 chicks. (I hope)

I should be done hatching in the incubator until I order catdance again for two months. My first 100 chicks will have been hatched before April end for the year so I am ahead.

I have some unusual lacing on my meat birds this time around. I am looking forward to my M3's hatching at Easter.

 

[Mumsy]

On another note, if Silkies eat shavings because of obstructed vision, would it help to use hair tape to keep the crest up out of their eyes? Not saying this is why they do, just saw speculation earlier that may be at least one cause.

This is the question I ask myself everyday. I don't know the answer. It's a case by case deal for me. I've raised Silkies in years past and the crests were no where near as big as they are now. I trim crests on those I never plan showing. I leave crests alone if the bird seems to find water and food easily enough not to starve. This is my first experience with shavings eating Silkies. I'm learning as I go. If this Silkie lives, she will go on hay. She is crippled and walks and stands on the sides of her feet. She needs a soft surface for comfort.

I have been up most the night. She was gurgling and coughing a lot for a few hours. I sat and held her in my lap and massaged her throat from the wattles to the crop. The crop is empty but her cough was wet. After a half hour she seemed better. She passed poo two more times. It is normal. More urates than yesterday.

I had some chard from my garden sauteed in olive oil frozen in the freezer. I boiled it then strained it. I forced a full dropper into her mouth followed with another cod liver oil gell cap squeezed for a couple drops. She didn't cough or gurgle during but she does pant heavily and struggle mightly. Still standing. Still aware of her surroundings and still not eating on her own. I took some of the chard broth and have some chick starter soaking in it. In an hour I will use the eye dropper and give the strained liquid to her.

 

[Loghousemom]

Thanks for the information on DL everyone.

After reading through that link, I think I am doing all right.

lalaland, I don't really have too many problems with freezing, but our coop is kept above freezing. There were a couple extremely cold days where I noticed the frozen poo problem. The chickens seem to do a pretty good job at mixing things up in there. When the leaves were falling I filled a couple trash cans with them and have been adding them periodically to the coop along with fresh hay. (Ya, I know it isn't the best to use with DL, but it is free and with the size of my coop, I don't think pine shavings would be affordable.) we use those with the brooder for the chicks.

i am so thankful to have found this thread. I am still doing a lot of learning as I go.

 

[Sally8]

Thanks for the information on DL everyone.

After reading through that link, I think I am doing all right.

lalaland, I don't really have too many problems with freezing, but our coop is kept above freezing. There were a couple extremely cold days where I noticed the frozen poo problem. The chickens seem to do a pretty good job at mixing things up in there. When the leaves were falling I filled a couple trash cans with them and have been adding them periodically to the coop along with fresh hay. (Ya, I know it isn't the best to use with DL, but it is free and with the size of my coop, I don't think pine shavings would be affordable.) we use those with the brooder for the chicks.

i am so thankful to have found this thread. I am still doing a lot of learning as I go.

Pine flakes here are $4.99 a bale, (I start out with 2) the bale is compressed, it spreads out a lot, then as time goes along 1 add part to another, etc by spring I have 4 - 5 bales on the floor (Remember, they come compressed.) It works for me. We do have lots of leaves but I'm always afraid to save them for fear of mold. I do use them along in the fall until snow comes. This winter, we went a couple months of below freezing at nights and most days. (Just commenting what works for me)

 

[Sally8]

Wanted to post this so you'd be aware of what's going on and can pass is on as appropriate.

REPOSTS FROM THE INDIANA THREAD
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/730582/indiana-bycers-here/2820#post_10668903

This is just so sad. In the last year several larger company's closed their doors for good, several moved out of the country just in our area. I felt people would start stealing livestock for food but this is apparently for the $. People are getting desperate. My heart goes out to this family. I hope they are found.

 

[Sally8]

I am going to move the 3 week old chicks outside this weekend. I am so looking forward to that. My dust level in my house has risen to intolerable.

Between Friday and Easter Sunday I will be hatching out at least 60 chicks. (I hope)

I should be done hatching in the incubator until I order catdance again for two months. My first 100 chicks will have been hatched before April end for the year so I am ahead.

Del what are you going to do with the chicks this week end? How will you keep them warm? (I know it's still cold there) I have 6 chicks THAT HAVE TO GO SOMEWHERE! DH built me a chick coop and run but when I ran a test with a 60 watt bulb, it wasn't warm enough at night. 40. I'm just thinking about their body heat. The flooring in the run is a scratched/rough surface. In my last chick coop, DH wired a ceramic socket and built a cover out of hardware cloth that worked perfect to cover it all. I would close them in at night. For now I like the idea of the back porch, it's screened in, they should be safe from pred's.

My newly hatched chicks worry me. They are so docile. 2 walk funny at times. I never see them eat or drink. I'm on my way in to use a syringe to get a bit of water in them (to make me feel better) They are in with the poult and he knows how to eat and drink. Something is not right. I'll say it again, "No more shipped eggs for me!"

So many egg's to hatch! Will keep my fingers crossed. Thanks. sue