The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

Aoxa- On the FF
On the "energy" issue...a couple things. If you read much about nutrition you'll find that a person CAN survive quite well with little or no carbohydrates (or "energy" as Chris calls it). Our bodies are designed to derive energy from the foods we eat - not just carbs. Interestingly enough, what research has found that we must have for healthy survival are FATS and PROTEINS; carbs are kind of like "icing on the cake" as the body can create all the building blocks it needs without them although perhaps not optimal. In fact, most health-conscious folks are finding that excessive carbs are often times at the root of most diseases.

One of the cool things about eating meat and milk products from animals that are grass fed, is that the ruminant is specially equipped to digest - with the help of other microorganisms in their digestive system - vegetable matter that HUMANS CAN'T PROPERLY DIGEST AND USE as they aren't as "bio-available" to us and we lose a lot in the transaction(!) When we eat meat and milk products from the grass-fed animals, however, we get the SAME nutrients in a form that we CAN digest and are able to assimilate at a much greater rate than if we ate the grass ourselves.

Now back to chickens - As you are observing and shared in the comments you made, it's obvious that your chickens are thriving on you ff. Here are a couple other quotes from all the conversation:
In your quote above, you make my point in the quote above that. Most of us only have our feed fermenting for such a short time there is a lot of carbohydrate left in there anyway. (Was the person's name Chris? ) stated that it is not fermenting but soaking. At one level he/she is correct...it doesn't have the chance to fully ferment in that short of time. However, many of us keep adding new feed back to feed that has been fermenting longer so there will be some percentage of the feed that is more fermented.

When you smell that "pickle-like" smell in there it means the bacteria and/or yeasts are putting out the acids aforementioned. The process is happening, there are good bacteria in there, there is lactic or acetic acid in there, there are yeasts in there, there is new feed-source in there with plenty of carbs left...so actually you have a lot going on in there!

Even after all that, I leave a little non-fermented dry feed available at all times. Again, observation is telling me that they prefer the ff (or in this case "partially ff"
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) to the dry although they do pick through the dry occasionally and do pick up sprouts and a little unsprouted grain from time to time.

All this to say that I don't think you need to worry a bit about giving too much ff!
I just wanted to get your thoughts on this. No I don't think what I'm doing at all is adversely affecting my birds. On the contrary. They are thriving and have never been doing so well (most notably the chicks!)

You know a lot about nutrition, and I really appreciate your take on it. With free ranging as well, they are picking up on plenty of other goodies and don't rely solely on the FF as 100% of their diet. Saw them eating pine needles the other day, why on earth would they do that?
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You know a lot about nutrition, and I really appreciate your take on it. With free ranging as well, they are picking up on plenty of other goodies and don't rely solely on the FF as 100% of their diet. Saw them eating pine needles the other day, why on earth would they do that?
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Ha Ha...I have read a lot about nutrition but what I've seen over the past 30 years is that the experts change their minds
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and keep coming back to the old ways as the best. I imagine some of what I believe today will change as I learn and consider more!
 
Ha Ha...I have read a lot about nutrition but what I've seen over the past 30 years is that the experts change their minds
gig.gif
and keep coming back to the old ways as the best. I imagine some of what I believe today will change as I learn and consider more!
I have a friend who just graduated from her holistic nutrition course. She also owns chickens. She would so fit in here.
 
Huh! that is really interesting that you feed the FF in the pipe feeder. I wonder about cold - you don't have any problem with the feed freezing?

I am able to feed FF only three days a week, when I am home. Otherwise, am gone a couple hours before sunrise, and not back home til after the chickens are roosting. It freezes solid otherwise by the time they are up and about.

And Pigeon guy, how cool that you head out to the neighbors and help with chores . Great way to visit and get something done at the same time.
But...no supper with your wife? (None of my biz).
Pipe feeder is cut length ways and is 5 feet long with end caps to retain the juice. I found it strange that it did not freeze. I do keep a good UP/ACV smell to it though so I looked up at what temp. vinegar freezes that would be 28 degrees Fahrenheit after 6 hours. I had one time that I went out in the morning and the feed was frozen. My thoughts were you must not have been very hungry so I put half rations out and when I came back that night it was all gone. I have been out between feedings and the FF would have little crystals in it but was gone that night.
 
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Pipe feeder is cut length ways and is 5 feet long with end caps to retain the juice. I found it strange that it did not freeze. I do keep a good UP/ACV smell to it though so I looked up at what temp. vinegar freezes that would be 28 degrees Fahrenheit after 6 hours. I had one time that I went out in the morning and the feed was frozen. My thoughts were you must not have been very hungry so I put half rations out and when I came back that night it was all gone. I have been out between feedings and the FF would have little crystals in it but was gone that night.
It sure is a pain in the butt when it freezes. I have a stick I pick it out with and toss it on the ground. They'll eat it eventually.

I try to prevent it by only feeding a little at a time.
 
It sure is a pain in the butt when it freezes. I have a stick I pick it out with and toss it on the ground. They'll eat it eventually.

I try to prevent it by only feeding a little at a time.
Ya but it gets freaky cold where your at. It will get below 0 here but not like there. If mine froze solid every day I would practice different methods. Like a heat tape connected to the bottom of my feeder.
 

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