The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[armorfirelady]

Quote:

Aren't Apples and Tomatoes fruit?

apples yes....I always thought tomatoes were veggies??

 

[loanwizard]

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/is-a-tomato-a-fruit-or-a-vegetable

 

[TurtlePowerTrav]

Okay y'all "oldies"...another question.

Is is possible that an almost hen (1 yr old on March 25) could lay 2 eggs in 1 day?

Here's the deal. The Araucanas both lay a blue egg. Charlie's eggs are always small. Charlie's sister's eggs are always quite large - right from the first egg. I have always been able to tell which is which with no problem.

Today there was a small egg when I got home from work so it was laid earlier this morning likely. That would be Charlie's. Then I observed Charlie in the nest box when I was out there at about 2:00 and now - 4:30 - there is another small blue egg in the box. Should be Charlie's.

Charlie's sister has NEVER had a small egg. She's never had an egg the same shape as Charlie's eggs. Hers are more oblong a and way longer/bigger.

Both of these eggs are the size and shape of Charlie's. So...is it possible that she had 2 eggs in 1 day?

It is rare, but it does happen. With my first 6 girls(before I even got the teens as chicks) there was one day that I got 7 eggs. I diligently check in the am and pm for eggs. 7 eggs from 6 girls in a 24hr period. It only happened that one time and I have not gotten more eggs than birds available since. This happened last Aug.

 

[delisha]

Del -
For our education, could you elaborate on this statement you made:

"I examined the pullet today and I think she should start laying soon."

How does one examine a pullet in such a way that you could tell she will lay soon? What are you looking for specifically


Also - another few questions on your orps:
I love the look of these birds (I always like "birds of color" better than the white birds

) But in another place we were taught that Orpingtons are always unthrifty on feed, costing way more than other breeds to maintain.

-Do you find that true of this particular strain of Orps or is it just the Buffs? Are the English a better bird?
-How long have you kept them?
-Give us a little info on your experience with them as egg layers and how they compare as a dual purpose for meat.

Thanks!

I wrote this out twice already and it just disappears with one wrong keystroke.

I have had American bred..this is my first English experience and I love them.

My blacks lay an egg a day..the blue is yet to start.

Physical exams of your hens and pullets are important. You should simply know them. The more you handle them the more you can recognize that something is not quite right. For pullets or Pol's, the body changes, just like any female getting ready for birth. Things change. When you have time pick up a young bird and place your hand at the vent area. it will be hard and knobby. Pick up an older layer and do the same, it will be soft and squishy.Even the bones will have some give to them. A Pol is in between. When they are about ready( in this size bird )you should be able to get three to four fingers between her bones and it should get softer and softer as she matures. More flexible , Exterior clues are, nest shopping, hanging out close to the coop, different noises, interest in males, and odd behaviors. Her vent is soft and I was able to get 4 fingers between her bones. Her vent also pulses during touching, but, that is not always a tell.

These are not unthrifty at all. They love to forage more than hang out at the feed dish. They rather have greens and bugs than anything. They eat the brown grass now. If you look at that hen her face is full and so is her food dish. There is dry kale and spinach they just eat all winter long as long as I keep the snow off part of it. Heritage American Orpingtons are great birds. They love to forage too. Unfortunately the orpingtons you get at the mills are meant for caging and confinement and they do better than many breeds at confinement, offering them just food, no exercise, and they will just sit at the food dish. If you did keep them a little hungry and they are out in the woods they might be good foragers too. Hatchery birds have a place. Orpingtons love to have a nice house, a nice bed, and a nice bowl of food and they are happy as can be. Wonderful temperaments. Even my male is so sweet it is amazing. Usually when males get to his age they are a little boy crazy..he is not.he has never flipped a wing or made a man sound to me ever. When I examined him today he tucked his head into my arm pit just like a chick..it was so sweet. I have never had the opportunity to eat one. I will have to let you know soon. I have about 9 black chicks running around and all the males will be food. The other Orpingtons I have had I have culled everyone. I never had quality. I picked them up at the fair and at shows through the years. I just liked them and knew nothing about them. I was buying bad stuff. It is not the breeds fault, it was mine. With the Internet..I now have more knowledge.

They are extremely broody..if you want chickens just for eggs..they are not for you. They will lay 30 eggs and go broody. You stick them in a cage for three days, and they go back to laying, than 90 eggs later they are broody again.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Thank you, Del. And Thank you, Aoxa.

And...on the 2 eggs... the last time she had an egg was a whole week ago so I wondered if she could have just had a fluke and had an early one and a late one! They have both been varying and I think it's because the weather has been all over the map. They had the "molt time off" and are starting to get back into things in the last 3-4 weeks.

Well...for sure I know the second egg was Charlie. And the first could have come as early as 9+ hours earlier so I suppose it's possible.

 

[delisha]

Okay y'all "oldies"...another question.

Is is possible that an almost hen (1 yr old on March 25) could lay 2 eggs in 1 day?

Here's the deal. The Araucanas both lay a blue egg. Charlie's eggs are always small. Charlie's sister's eggs are always quite large - right from the first egg. I have always been able to tell which is which with no problem.

Today there was a small egg when I got home from work so it was laid earlier this morning likely. That would be Charlie's. Then I observed Charlie in the nest box when I was out there at about 2:00 and now - 4:30 - there is another small blue egg in the box. Should be Charlie's.

Charlie's sister has NEVER had a small egg. She's never had an egg the same shape as Charlie's eggs. Hers are more oblong a and way longer/bigger.

Both of these eggs are the size and shape of Charlie's. So...is it possible that she had 2 eggs in 1 day?

Yes it is possible..I had a pullet who layed two eggs eod for quite some time. I have had it several times. It works out.

WELL! We now have 4 layers! My other Cuckoo Marans laid her first egg about 20 minutes ago..... and she is STILL squawking! (as in, squawking for 20 minutes!)



It has a filter because I posted in on Instagram. I like the speckles Also, there was some blood smeared on it, I am assuming that's fairly normal for a first egg? The other three girls lay very clean eggs and have from the start.

Nice size egg!

Quote: My hens are in poring rain, snow and sleet sometimes..as long as they have a nice dry place to sleep and warm up they will be good.

I'd love your all's opinion! We're setting up the coop/run. And where we have it planned (best view from the house, good for wind/sun issues) it's about 10 feet from our apple tree. The girls will have a fenced run, but I also plan on letting them free range. Should I be concerned? I'm fairly certain I read that apple seeds can be an issue for chickens, I would assume they'd avoid them. They'll have plenty of other food. FF daily, not to mention the rest of the other goodies and such they'll find while ranging.

I have apple, pear, cherry, and a few other types of fruit baring trees that the birds eat the ground fallings..the seeds act like natural wormers..they will eat them if they need them..so do not worry.

My guys get apples as part of their fresh veggies and I have never had a problem. And I have seen them eat the seeds.


Oh and remember in the old thread we were speaking about freezing fruits & veggies and wondering how they would freeze?

Well I filled up a small chest freezer this fall full of pumpkins, squash, cukes, zukes, apples, watermelon & grapes and have been pulling them out weekly to give to the hens. Everything froze well & the hens ate them all. The apples turned a little brown and the grapes as well but they were still eaten.

So my plan is a bigger garden this year so I can freeze more & hopefully buy nothing.

That is great to know..I am definatly stealing your idea..thank you.

Quote:

Aren't Apples and Tomatoes fruit?

apples yes....I always thought tomatoes were veggies??
seeds =fruit

 

[chickiemomy]

Quote:

Aren't Apples and Tomatoes fruit?

apples yes....I always thought tomatoes were veggies??

From an old-time-y botanist --

I believe this concern comes from the fact - yes fact- that apple seeds DO contain a substance that metabolizes to cyanide, HOWEVER, the amount is very small, and for anyone, or any animal to be harmed by this chemical, they would need to ingest very large quantities of seeds - probably to the exclusion of anything else. We have bodies that can handle much more than we give credit -- for a little more description, you can go to snopes.com - & search on apple seeds. My chickens eat apple seeds - eat crab apples - apple cores, including seeds - & are very healthy.

The green part of potato skins contains a chemical that is very mildly toxic - as in - if one ate a great deal of them - you MIGHT get a stomache ache. I do throw my potato peels in a container & microwave them - only because they keep a little nicer for a few days of scraps for my few girls.

Tomato - the green stems of the tomato plant contain, I think oxalates - whatever - they are toxic as well - but chickens are smart enough to not eat the vines - they do like the pretty yellow blossoms tho!

Rhubarb - also oxalates, I thnk, in the leaves - we humans cut the leaves off -- chickens, in my experience don't eat them.

Buttercups & other plants in the ranunculus family - have some toxins - that you might be concerned if a baby, or small child ate (know that from personal experience involving poison control - 30 years ago) - but I refuse to babysit my chickens - it is everywhere here. I think they do nibble on it some - but so far no bad effects.

IMHO - as long as a chicken is not severely deprived nutritionally, and as long as the food is digestible ( I see reason to keep stringy stuff out of their reach - crop impaction) - my personal belief is that they will not eat something that will hurt them. -- Not saying you don't want to make sure they have good nutritional feed & supplements -- just saying IMHO you don't have to worry about them picking up a natural plant item while they are out foraging.

also not saying you can trust them to avoid mouse poison - or other lethal, people-derived stuff -- just talking about nature - natural plants here. I can't -- won't monitor 5 acres of vegetation. You have to do what makes sense to you -- this is what makes sense to me.FWIW.

o - & about the fruit vs veggie --

BOTANCALLY speaking tomatoes are the fruits of the tomato plant - actually pretty classically fruit - fleshy substance covering seeds. However, culturally we consider them vegetables either because we don't think of them as sweet, or because we eat them with a main meal, not as a dessert. And there was some time n the distant US past where there was some tax on fruit - so they became codified as vegetable to avoid that tax. And for all you who are wondering about strawberries - they are a special kind of fruit, the proper name of which escapes me -- that carry their seeds OUTSIDE the fleshy part.

I spent hours as a child arguing are tomatoes fruits with an older bro -- probably what got me into botany - as when I had the full, real answer - I finally won. Yes I'm from a wierd family - but aren't we all in some way??

 

[delisha]

Quote:

Aren't Apples and Tomatoes fruit?

apples yes....I always thought tomatoes were veggies??

From an old-time-y botanist --

I believe this concern comes from the fact - yes fact- that apple seeds DO contain a substance that metabolizes to cyanide, HOWEVER, the amount is very small, and for anyone, or any animal to be harmed by this chemical, they would need to ingest very large quantities of seeds - probably to the exclusion of anything else. We have bodies that can handle much more than we give credit -- for a little more description, you can go to snopes.com - & search on apple seeds. My chickens eat apple seeds - eat crab apples - apple cores, including seeds - & are very healthy.

The green part of potato skins contains a chemical that is very mildly toxic - as in - if one ate a great deal of them - you MIGHT get a stomache ache. I do throw my potato peels in a container & microwave them - only because they keep a little nicer for a few days of scraps for my few girls.

Tomato - the green stems of the tomato plant contain, I think oxalates - whatever - they are toxic as well - but chickens are smart enough to not eat the vines - they do like the pretty yellow blossoms tho!

Rhubarb - also oxalates, I thnk, in the leaves - we humans cut the leaves off -- chickens, in my experience don't eat them.

Buttercups & other plants in the ranunculus family - have some toxins - that you might be concerned if a baby, or small child ate (know that from personal experience involving poison control - 30 years ago) - but I refuse to babysit my chickens - it is everywhere here. I think they do nibble on it some - but so far no bad effects.

IMHO - as long as a chicken is not severely deprived nutritionally, and as long as the food is digestible ( I see reason to keep stringy stuff out of their reach - crop impaction) - my personal belief is that they will not eat something that will hurt them. -- Not saying you don't want to make sure they have good nutritional feed & supplements -- just saying IMHO you don't have to worry about them picking up a natural plant item while they are out foraging.

also not saying you can trust them to avoid mouse poison - or other lethal, people-derived stuff -- just talking about nature - natural plants here. I can't -- won't monitor 5 acres of vegetation. You have to do what makes sense to you -- this is what makes sense to me.FWIW.
Well said!!

 

[midnightroo]

Lots of great information! Thanks everyone for sharing.

Loan, sorry about your office and the chickens with the dog. You are a great person for being so patient with it. It is like a little kid, just in need of some special one on one attention that we all deserve.

Earlier i asked about corn and laying. Well, this afternoon my husband and 6 yo saw one sit for our roo and mated with him! No running away or screaming when he grabbed her neck. So my fingers are crossed that I will have my first egg soon!

 

[armorfirelady]

Thank you chickiemommy for the explanation. I also don't worry about what the chickens are eating in the yard/veggie garden. And mine seem to know the tomato plant is poisoness and just snuck off the fruit that grew over the fence

I dont think back in little house days they fretted over their birds as much as some people do. I just keep telling myself that when I think their cold, wet, etc. They survived back then & they survive just fine now being a chicken (But yes I do care for them....u just wont find them in my house watching tv with me lol)