The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Mumsy]

Wow Mumsy that gizzard color is strange! When my Amerucanas broke her keel bone which caused an impacted crop she pooped a bright green liquid just like that. I was told it was bile??? So I wonder if she had some bile / liver issue???? I really have no idea... it is a mystery. So that white little thing was the tumor?? Under her neck?? What kind of consistency was it?? Poor little thing

Yes. When I cut into the gizzard I expected it to be filled with wet mash. The bright green grassy content was unexpected. She had no access to fresh greens at all. She was just picking at her food for the last week and only really liked the soft scrambled eggs. The small amount of alfalfa and dried oregano in the FF could not have caused that green color in my opinion. I am wondering if the tumor (which was firm to the touch) was blocking the passage to her crop and she was slowly starving to death.It finally must have closed off food going in to the crop completely and she was too weak. She was continuing to excrete feces with urate. This is perplexing to be sure. The liver looked normal to me.

 

[Mumsy]

Mumsy..it looks like lead poison..

Lead poison!? Really!? Couldn't have happened on my property. I feed and water the silkies out of glass containers. They are penned seperately on wood flooring breeding cages with poultry wire fencing. They have never free ranged since I got them. Lead poisoning would explain the neurological symptoms. I wonder if Trav and the other BYC owner of dead silkies opened the gizzards on their birds from the same breeder? Very interesting. Where did you learn this from del?

 

[delisha]

Quote: She probably came with it...have you cut that lump? I bet she injested lead and it covered it..it slowly leached into her body. Trav probably had the same thing

 

[Mumsy]

She probably came with it...have you cut that lump? I bet she injested lead and it covered it..it slowly leached into her body. Trav probably had the same thing

I just did. Surprised me it was a bubble! No substance but it was blocking the crop opening. It felt firm until cutting it. The crop was indeed under that growth. It was completely empty. I mean CLEAN. A very small crop. Like chick sized small.
I looked up symptoms of lead poisoning in birds and chickens and she had ALL of them. Except for that bubble growth on her crop. There was no way of knowing when I bought her she was poisoned. It took months for her to get to this stage. She just never grew much, moved much, ate much and in the last week she acted blind, with spasms, seizures, thirsty, and lack of appetite. Poor little creature never had a chance with me. I was clueless to what was wrong with her.

 

[Bulldogma]

Here is the picture with orientation of organs as they were in the body. Nothing moved around. The tumor where the crop should be is not in this picture. I saw no crop. No pouch. very strange. I believe she was dying. I don't think she would have lived another hour or so.

Her oviduct was almost non existent. This pullet was just not growing. I didn't open her brain. When I think about how she first started exhibiting symptoms and I thought she had a brain injury would explain a tumor there.

Hmmm... I think a few things may be mislabeled here. Lets get Delisha to weigh in, too.

This is what I *believe* (marked in red) - I'm quite sure about the heart, though. And the gizzard (you have marked as "Heart") - I'm pretty darn sure that is the gizzard there. The green stuff was likely in the crop. Did you need a super-sharp knife to cut through it? Gizzards are all muscle and will have some food surrounded by a good bit of gravel/grit. The crop will be much softer and easier to cut.

 

[delisha]

sorry BDM..but because of what I suspect this poor girl had internal issues. Mumsy is correct on body parts. That gizzard is about three times the size it should be because it was working so hard to grind up nothing but bile. It is a muscle and had been working hard all that birds life.
The lungs are pink and the heart lays on top of them..I think you are looking at it upside down and confused by the huge size of the gizzzard..the crop is an air bubble basically. After death it would not hold that shape unless it was filled with food, and it would be next to the neck. way up on top.

 

[Mumsy]

Hmmm... I think a few things may be mislabeled here. Lets get Delisha to weigh in, too.

This is what I *believe* (marked in red) - I'm quite sure about the heart, though. And the gizzard (you have marked as "Heart") - I'm pretty darn sure that is the gizzard there. The green stuff was likely in the crop. Did you need a super-sharp knife to cut through it? Gizzards are all muscle and will have some food surrounded by a good bit of gravel/grit. The crop will be much softer and easier to cut.

What you think is the crop is the gizzard I cut out and opened to the green stuff. It did have grit in it too. What you think is the gizzard is the heart. It was still pumping when I did the necropsy.



The crop is the tiny pouch under this bubble growth. I cut that growth out and then could slip my finger into the crop and find the esophagus. The gall bladder is next to the spleen under the liver.


edited to add: Yes. The gizzard was a thick muscle and it took some sawing with my knife to cut it open I turned it inside out to rinse and examine the lining. . It was filled with the green stuff and grit and a few seeds. The gizzard is stituated far down in the cavity. The crop is attached to the esophagus at the neck.


Before I removed anything, I cut away the breast and lifted it up. Heart at the top. Liver in the middle. Gizzard at the bottom before I removed it to examine everything.

 

[Bulldogma]

I should mention that I may well not be looking at the picture correctly, and am in NO way trying to question you, Mumsy. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I just wanted to ask.

Interesting about lead poisoning! I wonder (just wondering out loud, here) if it was actually an abscess under the tumor which seemed to look like a small crop, and her true crop was large and swollen from poisoning/inability to process food or pituitary tumors (or both - lead poisoning can cause all sorts of nastiness!)

 

[Bulldogma]

Didn't see your last post - sorry.

OK - thank you for straightening me out! Innards can be confusing - especially in photos. Appreciate your help!!

 

[armorfirelady]

AFL - can you define the granola?  Is it sweetened, home made or store bought, etc.?

The granola I believe was organic. I spent a good amount of time looking at all the different kinds. Almonds, sunflower hearts, cranberries, honey, flax seed & I forgot a few other ingredients I am sure. I know there were not any I couldn't pronounce lol (box was thrown out already)
The other box of granola I used was from save a lot. A no name brand but I really don't remember the ingredients but I want to say it was the best choice they had.

Do you think it could be the sugar or sugar products causing the problem? The only other time they have had granola I think was in some Johnny cakes I made. I don't think I gave it to them before that.

Hmmmmm