The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[delisha]

Mumsy..

Great job on being such a good, responsible advocate for the life and health of your chickens. You are a treasure. You are showing that culling is for the benefit of the flock, The life of the flock, not the detriment.

Egg binding is painful. If you can't resolve the problem in 24 hours you need to cull..it is not a hard decision. The birds are in pain. You can't fix every thing. I am sorry you are going threw this, but, think of the bird. The bird must come first.

 

[pigeonguy]

Mumsy..

Great job on being such a good, responsible advocate for the life and health of your chickens. You are a treasure. You are showing that culling is for the benefit of the flock, The life of the flock, not the detriment.

Egg binding is painful. If you can't resolve the problem in 24 hours you need to cull..it is not a hard decision. The birds are in pain. You can't fix every thing. I am sorry you are going threw this, but, think of the bird. The bird must come first.

Even though I made the post about if you don't want to cull right away. I do agree with this.

 

[Pozees]

Even though I made the post about if you don't want to cull right away. I do agree with this.

x2

 

[Sally8]

Mumsy..

Great job on being such a good, responsible advocate for the life and health of your chickens. You are a treasure. You are showing that culling is for the benefit of the flock, The life of the flock, not the detriment.

Egg binding is painful. If you can't resolve the problem in 24 hours you need to cull..it is not a hard decision. The birds are in pain. You can't fix every thing. I am sorry you are going threw this, but, think of the bird. The bird must come first.

I so agree. I've had one hen that went into peritonitis before I knew what was going on. It still makes me sick that I let her suffer so long. I'm sorry to all you with sick hens.

 

[Leahs Mom]

So here's the million dollar question...and I think one that haunts us "newbies":

What if we misinterpreted what was going on and culled one that didn't need to be culled?

I think there is always that thought going on in the back of our minds that we may take one out and find that everything looked healthy and it was really not what we thought it was. It's that "overactive conscience" and the fear that we will make a BIG MISTAKE.

I do agree with culling....I'm just posting from the perspective of the newbie that has that nagging question of if they overreacted or whatever.


I know that the more experience we get the more we'll have the confidence to make those decisions and know it was right.

 

[delisha]

So here's the million dollar question...and I think one that haunts us "newbies":

What if we misinterpreted what was going on and culled one that didn't need to be culled?

I think there is always that thought going on in the back of our minds that we may take one out and find that everything looked healthy and it was really not what we thought it was. It's that "overactive conscience" and the fear that we will make a BIG MISTAKE.

I do agree with culling....I'm just posting from the perspective of the newbie that has that nagging question of if they overreacted or whatever.


I know that the more experience we get the more we'll have the confidence to make those decisions and know it was right.

This is my opinion and it is NOT directed to you or anyone. I understand many times you put up questions for others to learn. You are a good teacher.


I do not care what you find in the bird after culling. If the bird is suffering for 24 hours and has problems passing eggs, and you have tried many things to help the bird and it still is not passing the egg.. it has to be culled. That is not a mistake. That is a responsibility. The mistake comes when you cull after the poor bird has suffered for days on end and you keep trying. Infection, sepsis, and puss invade the chicken. Never ever worry about culling to soon. Most worries are culling too late. Killing a bird is never a mistake when the bird is suffering or for food. You still have a meal if you kill in time. You give- instead of take. You give- to your knowledge, your family and the future of your flock. You can open the bird and try to discover what happened if infection has not set in. What you can do to prevent another death. What you can do to avoid the same thing. You can't do that if the bird is riddled with infection. You will never know exactly why the bird got the infection. You will have to speculate. I never recommend cutting open a bird riddled with infection. It should be destroyed. The health risk to you and your family is not worth the risk to open a bird filled with infection.

On another note..the person saying the bird has yellow discharge. It could be anything. If it smells it might be vent gleet. That is treatable.

Egg bound mean the bird can't pass an egg.

If the bird is egg bound and is discharging infection you need to kill the bird.

I changed the word cull to kill. I want to be clear I mean to kill the bird and not remove it from the flock by any other means.

 

[Sally8]

This is my opinion and it is NOT directed to you or anyone. I understand many times you put up questions for others to learn. You are a good teacher.


I do not care what you find in the bird after culling. If the bird is suffering for 24 hours and has problems passing eggs, and you have tried many things to help the bird and it still is not passing the egg.. it has to be culled. That is not a mistake. That is a responsibility. The mistake comes when you cull after the poor bird has suffered for days on end and you keep trying. Infection, sepsis, and puss invade the chicken. Never ever worry about culling to soon. Most

Thank you. That was very well said.

 

[kian]

My assumption is there is an egg in there. I am basing it on the other assumption that it was she who laid a soft shell egg and then the shelless yolk. No other egg has appeared, I can identify the eggs I have been getting. I cannot feel an egg, but I am so new to this that I may be feeling in the wrong place. I cannot try pigeonguy's advice: there is no way I could get my finger in there to feel. The way this is protruding, the poop I cannot get off or out.... nothing is going in that way.

From the start I have figured I'd have to cull her. I do have the feelings Leah's Mom talked about. I have the feelings Aoxa talked about. I have the feelings Delisha talked about. I know the right thing to do here. Like Mumsy said, if she's having this much trouble at the very start, it's never going to get better. Of COURSE I wanted to come on here and have everyone tell me that it's just one thing I didn't try and everything will be better. But I come here for advice and education, and I appreciate each of you so very much. I honestly don't want to do this and I really really wish she wasn't acting so very nearly normal so "I" could feel ok with this decision. But the thought of making her suffer is worse.

A practical question: how would I know if she has an infection prior to opening her up? Her poop looks and smells normal to me. Everything about her looks normal except for this vent issue.

I am so grateful to all of you for the advice and commiserations. You are all seriously awesome.

 

[Mumsy]

It was so very clear this pullet was in decline to me though to a newbie maybe the signs would be missed. She did not lay an egg though the roo was covering her and her hatch mate was laying and is now the brood mama of five healthy chicks. This pullet was eating, drinking, and free ranging. She was spending time in the nest box but not sitting. She was standing, tail down and she was getting a leaky vent. Yellow stained bum feathers and yellow stained poo. She was pale in the face and comb when she should be coloring up. She just didn't look right or act right even though she really didn't appear sick. Her symptoms were very subtle.

I was going to sleep on it and take another look at her in the morning. My husband came home from work and I told him about the pullet. He said, "Do you think this pullet has a future in your flock?" I had to answer no. It was the absolute right thing to end her suffering immediately. And it is hard for me to do this. I've had a tough two weeks with chickens in intensive care. But this was a no brain-er. The pullet was in slow decline. And it would have gotten much more painful for her with each passing hour.



Look closely at these necropsy images and you will see the blunt and painful truth what this pullet was dealing with and couldn't voice to me what was going on. Only by what I could observe in her behavior did I know she was in big trouble.



At eight months old she should have been coming into her laying prime. Her condition is pitiful. Crooked keel not with standing. She has no meat or fat.


This pullet had a very pinched tail. Her body shape is very narrow.


When I opened her up it took me a while to figure out what I was looking at. Her liver is pale. Heart was encased in fat. Her entrails were swollen and encased in fat and mass. None of this looked like a normal healthy eight month old pullet at POL.




This looked like a mess to me. To be honest, I have not butchered hundreds of chickens in my life time but I have seen my share of healthy ovum and oviducts. This doesn't look like one of those. There were no normal formed eggs.


Liver was paler than I normally see. Spleen larger than a bird her size. The heart was covered in fat as were her intestines. But her body was wasted.

I did the right thing. It wasn't easy for me because lets face it. You all know I love my chickens. But letting this pullet suffer one more day was unnecessary.

 

[featherfriender]

Has any of you had experience with a vicious little silkie roo? If I just even reach out toward him, he attacks my hand. He doesn't just peck, he grabs on and twists. I always have to wear gloves. And... he doesn't like it if I am in the chicken house (not run) - he attacks me then too. When I pick him up and hold him, he will turn his head around like an owl and keep trying to rip my skin off. He doesn't fly at me or chase me - just attacks if I reach out or am in the house. My other silkie roo does his little dance on occasion but has never pecked. Even my big EE roo doesn't peck at all or show any aggression. The little vicious guy is a good protector though - he always sounds the alarm for the flock, etc. My EE roo seems oblivious to everything.

 

. Re: vicious Silkie My rooster did a few stealth,side-ways jumps at my leg,but when I looked he was innocently pecking grass...so ,not sure,I ignored it. Third time he was braver,faced off & jumped me,head on...despite a gentle chest kick he repeated it,the next day,to a couple of kicks. He is gorgeous, great with the hens so I decided to try & dominate him....a little rebirthing ceremony So, got gloves, net, caught him, turned him upside-down then sat with him on my lap, holding feet with one hand while stroking belly/under wings and talking sweetly. Once was probably enough but did it three days, in a row...3 rd day I allowed him to sit up/still restrained &gave treats. So far,so good. I will not do the treats,anymore but will repeat weekly or whenever I see warnings. Great advice,above! But, try the belly rub...blew my guys little, mind without hurting him.