The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[stonykill]

Personally I don't worry about it too much. I don't think that knowing the daily needs would be of any practical use- in order for it to be so, you would have to know exactly how much feed your chicken is eating (like if it's 9g of protein they need and there is 9g in 5 oz of feed, that's worthless info unless you know each hen is eating 5 oz, which in fact none of us can know for a variety of reasons...). Percentage is a more practical way of figuring it, because the proportion of nutrients is more important than the total of any single nutrient. The closest I come to worrying about it is in the winter, when I almost completely exclude any scratch grains so I don't lower their overall protein too much. BUT I do completely agree re: the animal protein- I wish more commercial foods contained them.

agreed and well put

 

[4Hgirl]

I think that if the feed store is selling it as chick starter, they have likely been selling it that way for a long time and chicks have been using it successfully.  Maybe you could ask them how long they've carried it. 

So...I'd use it.  Just provide grit free-choice.

I did get the chick starter and when I put some in the glass bowl to ferment went through it a bunch of times with a fork and picked all the large pieces out. I missed one and watched a day old SP Rock swallow it up! Maybe I'm worrying too much. But forgot I'm out of baby grit, only had the big grit! Back to the feed store today.... Thanks for advice y'all!

 

[RedRidge]

I'm interested in this, too. I've thought about growing hulless oats and milo- did a tiny bit of milo last summer just to see how it did.

Oats & wheat are very easy.
Non-gmo corn is easy to grow, but because it's wind pollinated, so we are careful when we plant it so that it tassles at a totally different time than any other corn in our area that is not non-gmo (which is most).
I love the non-gmo corn because it is so easy to harvest and store all winter.

Growing grains is much easier for most folks than providing a year round animal protein...
That is the ultimate challenge for most folks who are raising all their own feeds.
I don't share my lamb and beef with the chickens... that meat is for humans... even the organ meat which I make pate into.
So the black soldier flies are the easiest way for us to provide that protein, but many folks who live up north and in Canada would have to create a more sophisticated "environment" to raise BSF. However, I know of quite a few folks raising them up north... some "inside".

 

[delisha]

Quote:

Several questions about your ration...
What protein percentage is it?
What do you do for animal protein (especially in the winter?
What is it costing you per pound?

Almost 35 cents a lb...I know it is expensive. When I get my grain house finished my feed costs should drop. It would be cheaper to buy bagged feed, but, I refuse to do it. The base for most bagged feed is corn. I have corn on the list, but, I do not use it unless they are practically giving it away. The last bag I purchased it was $9 for 50 lb. I can remember when it was $4.50 for 50lbs.
It is 16% with out the meat
I use an organic all flock grower as a suplement during the winter months when the fresh grains run low.
I also sprout wheat for them in the winter.
I Ferment the food and have no idea if it raises protein levels or not. I do know my flock eats less and wastes less than before I fermented. I do not feed my free range flock when the fields are full and they are let out in them. Right now they do not have grain feed at all. They do have access to Fermented chick feed at night, I give them all left overs from the chicks. They are acting like they are starving at night when I do give them the feed, but, all crops are packed full and bulging. Last night they
were in the rain till dark worming.
I feed raw meats and eggs. All chicken organs are fed back to the chickens. I feed all new chicks raw liver. We have a butcher shop pretty close with free range beef I sometimes get for them. My flock free ranges all year long. I even shovel for them. I plant clovers, kale, oregano, mint, sage, cilantro, and a host of other herbs right in the grazing yard. They have berries, apples, and pears when in season.

 

[4Hgirl]

H

Any hints on training for the chickens? We also have a rescued 2 year old Chesapeake retriever just got him 6weeks ago.

I took her to obedience class first and Formost! Then dropped her off at the same place for doggie daycare to socialize her about 10 times. She was aggressive to our other dog, over submissive to humans, and then acted over protective of me when on leash-aggressively.
Then we just used positive and negative reinforcement. She chewed everything for a long time. We just patiently waited and stayed firm yet loving. It paid off! The one thing we just couldn't cure was the submissive urination, Which is why she lives outside. She has tons of energy, she runs the property all day hunting and swims in the pond. She jogs 3miles Twice a week with me, And we run her with the golf cart Once a Week. As far as training with the chickens, when we got the chickens we showed them to her when they were babies and slowly let her have more and more contact, when supervised only. When she did attack one chicken and almost kill it we reprimanded her enough that she now realizes to do that. The key is the obedience training so she truly understands when we are happy with her and when we are upset with her and she wants to keep us happy. And once the chicken started producing eggs and she got a little treat, she came around to where she really likes them now. Good luck with your puppy!

 

[RedRidge]

Quote:
I figured you had to have some meat protein added in there somewhere.
The computer tossed this ration out at 14.9% protein... with fermenting and added meats you will likely be up over 16

Wow... $9/bag.... cheap...
I don't think 35 cents/lb is bad at all...
I heard our local non-gmo corn is going for $18/bag and you have to buy a ton.
Field peas are going for $26.

If I had to buy my ingredients instead of raise or grow some or all of them mine would cost $.45/lb - too steep for my blood

 

[4Hgirl]

Are you asking for training tips Amber? If so I would find out how strong the dogs prey drive is. Have it it on a loose long lead and let the chickens out. If the dog instantly goes for the chickens then you know you have a long road of training ahead. If it has no/limited interest then it will be easier/shorter training period. When we got our rescue Healer/Pit mix, we showed him the chickens in their run. He showed a little interest but no drive. So he has been supervised but off lead when the chickens are out, no issues so far. Although he does get fixated on the Silkies, I think he thinks they are a stuffed animal, but no mouthing or anything. Just likes to sniff them and follow them around. He is pretty much ignoring them now if they squak and fly around. When our dog overly fixates we either remove him to inside or put him on the tie-out cable(he doesn't like it), so he is learning that the chickens are higher in the pack than he is. I also feed scraps to the chickens first and after a bit let him and our old Aussie join in eating the scraps. I have always taken this approach, the chickens are higher than dogs in the pack.

My retrievers pray drive is the strongest I've ever seen... When we got our first batch of chicks the brooder was on the back porch, and the dog would stand by the screen door and stare, I was actually afraid she was gonna tear through the screen to get in and eat them. We just kept telling her no and To go away and when that stopped, we started introducing her to the chickens. My dog chases squirrels all day long but doesn't just chase them She hunts them and she's actually caught several Squirrels two rats and one mouse and one rabbit. Which she has killed and eaten them all, we allow her to eat her kill has a reward. She just had to learn not to hunt chickens.

 

[brandislee]

Oats & wheat are very easy.
Non-gmo corn is easy to grow, but because it's wind pollinated, so we are careful when we plant it so that it tassles at a totally different time than any other corn in our area that is not non-gmo (which is most).
I love the non-gmo corn because it is so easy to harvest and store all winter.

Growing grains is much easier for most folks than providing a year round animal protein...
That is the ultimate challenge for most folks who are raising all their own feeds.
I don't share my lamb and beef with the chickens... that meat is for humans... even the organ meat which I make pate into.
So the black soldier flies are the easiest way for us to provide that protein, but many folks who live up north and in Canada would have to create a more sophisticated "environment" to raise BSF. However, I know of quite a few folks raising them up north... some "inside".

Word- I'm too far north for BSF... unless I did something fancy and labor intensive, which I'm not willing to do. I don't do anything special other than feeding meat scraps to my chickens in the winter. But that could have been why my one hen died earlier- too much grain, not enough animal protein, resulting in fatty liver. BUT I don't yet see that as a reason to change what I do, but instead as a reason to avoid the breeds of chicken that tend to get fatter, like Orps. I've pretty much decided that I'm going to stick with EE's and get rid of the other breeds I currently have, and that is one of the reasons why- even in the winter they don't glut on feed and get too fat. Although two of the EE hens I currently have are large framed- I need to check them and make sure they're not carrying a lot of excess fat, and then I need to decide if that's something I want to breed for. It would be nice to have a hen with a big enough frame to be good for eating when I cull the flock. My original intent was to go for a dual purpose bird, which is why I decided on Buckeyes, Faverolles, and Speckled Sussex because all are DP and renowned for their flavor, and have decent lay rates. And I might still try the Speckled Sussex next year. But I think that as long as I'm still okay with doing broilers every year I'll worry less about the meat and more about the eggs. The reason for working towards a decent DP bird was for preparedness (you know, for if the s#*% hits the fan...), and I don't think that is the best reason, at least for me. Plus, if something happens I'm sure I'll be just as happy eating a decent sized EE hen as I would an only slightly tastier and slightly larger Buckeye or Fav hen... There are just so many reasons I love the EE's for my property- they blend in fantastically with our woody area (most of mine are black and white, a few have some brown, and I have two hens that are EE/Buff orp crosses who are mostly brown... I would like more brown ones), they know how to hide from hawks and forage really well, a few have gone broody (and I'll be breeding FOR that), they have the best personalities. I figure I should stick with what I love!

That was kind of a tangent, lol!

 

[brandislee]

My retrievers pray drive is the strongest I've ever seen... When we got our first batch of chicks the brooder was on the back porch, and the dog would stand by the screen door and stare, I was actually afraid she was gonna tear through the screen to get in and eat them. We just kept telling her no and To go away and when that stopped, we started introducing her to the chickens. My dog chases squirrels all day long but doesn't just chase them She hunts them and she's actually caught several Squirrels two rats and one mouse and one rabbit. Which she has killed and eaten them all, we allow her to eat her kill has a reward. She just had to learn not to hunt chickens.

I'm still working on my dog, too. He has learned to not bother the adult standards, but I still catch him looking at my Silkie like she's a piece of candy (or maybe he thinks she's a chew toy...) once in a while, and when I have meat birds in tractors he will stalk and pounce at the sides if they come near when the birds are still young. I'm working on acclimating him to them- they're just starting to free range, and as long as I'm RIGHT THERE he knows that the appropriate reaction when around them is to lay down. BUT I still don't trust him as far as I can throw him (and he's big...) so he's not allowed outside without me.

 

[PatQ]

1st adventure outside - it is sunny and warm....they are 4 days old









so smart going under the currant bush where it's safe