The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[SallyinIndiana]

Leah's mom, what did you use for poles? Yours look like they are quite tall, did you have to cement them in and how deep are they in the ground. I like the flag idea. I will look into it more, and try to start finding free flags or at least cheap used ones.
I think I remember you posting about the flags before now that I see the pictures again.

 

[brandislee]

My chick's like to hide from the winds when it comes sweeping down the plains 80 miles an hour we have to have water. In your own words can't planket statement this subject . depends on where you live and weather conditions and what kind of birds.

Warning! Graphic necropsy images of turkey chick

Just when I thought I was going to slide through Spring into Summer without much incident to discuss, found a dead turkey poult this afternoon.

A real mystery and has me scratching my head.


The six Blue Slate poults just turned three weeks old. I celebrated by turning them out in their own run in the lovely Rye grass I planted for them. I had them in a cage with a wire bottom for the first two weeks. They were looking and acting wonderful. Growing, exploring, and flapping their wings. The last two nights they were roosting eighteen inches off the ground! They've been on Turkey/Gamebird starter mash that I ferment with garlic powder, pepper seeds, and Oregano. They love it.





I fed them this morning as usual and even though it was misty out and threatening to rain, I let them out in the grass for an hour to forage and play. When it got down to 47 degrees and started to rain, I put them in and turned on their light bulb above the roost. All was well. All were acting normal and eating and drinking. Because they are three weeks old now, I have been keenly observing behavior for any abnormality.

Imagine my surprise and sadness to check on them an hour later and find the largest and healthiest acting chick dead in the shavings! It looked like it was sleeping with it's neck out stretched and eyes closed. The wings were out and it's legs underneath it. Another chick was cuddled up to it like they usually do to stay warm. The body of the dead poult was still warm.
I did a thourough examine of the extremities. No wounds. I suspected broken neck. They have been trying to fly. No breaks or contusions that I could see.

So I did a complete necropsy.



Not a mark on it. Back


Front. There was dried fecal matter on it's vent. It was normal in shape, color, and consistency.



The cavity looked normal. No abnormal smell. No blockage in the trachea or esophagus. Muscle tissue well formed, good tone and color.


Opening the beak further, allowed me to carefully check the back of the throat. It was normal.
I carefully felt the entire length of the trachea and esophagus looking for blockage or foreign objects. I opened the crop and found a teaspoon of fermented feed. No abnormal smell or marks.


All organs looked normal. The contents of the gizzard smelled like garlic as it should. Fermented feed, grass, and grit. Normal.

I examined the ceca and lower intestine. Normal. No sign of disease or worms to my eyes.



I rinsed and peeled the gizzard lining off to reveal the inner mucosa. The Provintriculis lining also looks normal.

This chick was in good health an hour before death. It's body was in good flesh. It had no external parasites. It seems to me it just lay down and died. Maybe it's heart just stopped for reasons that escape me?

I am no expert on anything but I did my best to give this guy his best chance of a healthy life. His death is a real mystery.

This necropsy is shared here for educational purposes. If anyone here on this thread sees something in the images or has some insight, please share with me.

I'm kinda bummed. I thought this little guy was going to be a super great Blue Slate Tom. (My hunch was correct. He had tiny testes forming.)

That truly sucks! I'm sorry that your poult died and that you can't find anything wrong with it, that is the most frustrating part sometimes, even more than the death itself. Great necropsy, though and thanks for posting pictures. My 6 year old just got an education, lol! She actually thought they were pretty interesting.

 

[stonykill]

My chick's like to hide from the winds when it comes sweeping down the plains 80 miles an hour we have to have water. In your own words can't planket statement this subject . depends on where you live and weather conditions and what kind of birds.

I stand behind my statement.

If I didn't have so much natural cover for my birds I would build them some to protect themselves from predatation, wind, rain, snow, hail etc besides the coop. Here is why. Nothing good can come from chickens hanging in the coop all of the time. Besides the mess they will get bored. Then peck at each other , canabalism, egg eating etc. Luring them to stay in the coop can't lead to anything good imho. They need places that are safe outside of the coop to hide.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Leah's mom, what did you use for poles? Yours look like they are quite tall, did you have to cement them in and how deep are they in the ground. I like the flag idea. I will look into it more, and try to start finding free flags or at least cheap used ones.
I think I remember you posting about the flags before now that I see the pictures again.

Well, we used what we had. My dad is a HAM (amateur radio operator) and he had lots of poles like that which were actually part of old antennas he had laying around. They were pretty long.

My fence posts on the back fence are hollow, so my husband just stuck those poles down inside the fence posts. There was a stray one that he wired to the dog kennel (think using several zip ties to attach the upright pole to the kennel post but wire instead....could have used zips though).

So if you can find some long dowels or metal pieces somewhere, you could just zip them to a fence structure OR you could hammer down a bigger diameter pipe into the ground and just slip the dowel w/the flag down inside it.

Get creative - go to a Lowes and look around for long metal objects (like the top poles for a chain link fence, for example) and get some ideas. The go to the local salvage or ReStore and see what they have for cheap. I'm thinking if the flags weren't too heavy you could probably use a rigid pvc pipe... there are probably lots of strange items at the salvage you'd never think of but would work fine!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Mumsy - thanks for the very well photo-documented post.

Very frustrating. I hear so many people have probs. with poults.

 

[delisha]

Quote:

This is just my opinion.. All situations are different. You must care for your birds what way works for you. I have never stated anyone should do it my way. I specifically stated it was an opinion and my very own opinion. If what you are doing is working for you..that is fantastic and you should continue to do it!! I freely share my knowledge and experience.


Protein is important for all animals. But for poultry, in producing eggs and growing to produce meat, the meat protein part of their feed regimen is crucial. It is also expensive! Finding good quality, cheap protein is one of the challenges of raising and keeping chickens. This is where the small farmer/chicken raiser can increase family health through creativity. Buying bagged feed with 20& proteins that are all plant based is not what a chicken needs to be healthy. IMO They need animal protein. 16% protein with a large portion animal protein is better for the birds than any 20% plant based proteins could ever be. I do not need anyone to agree with me or disagree it is my opinion.

Is my broody crazy or is this normal broody behavior? (I have no idea, this is my first broody experience) My broody has been sitting tight on her nest of plastic easter eggs since saturday. Every day the other hen lays in the nest while she gets off and looks around for a few minutes, then she goes straight back. I take the fresh egg out when she gets off the nest in the evening when I feed everyone. I've gone in and checked on her and she's sitting tight at night too apparently. This afternoon I noticed that she was out with the rest of the flock. I figured Mrs. Henny Penny was laying. Then I noticed Mrs. Henny penny out too. My broody spent probably a good two hours running around the yard puffed up like a puffer fish yelling at people, PECKED the rooster and screamed at him when he tried to mate her, and generally acted irate. Then she went back in and sat on the nest again.

I am completely confused. While she was running around the yard puffed up like a puff adder screaming at people I went in and collected the (real) egg out of her nest. it was cool. The plastic easter eggs don't care but this wouldn't be good for real eggs. I was going to give her some real eggs if she was still sitting by the end of the week but now I'm not sure.... Is it just that she's being excessively distrubed by Mrs. henny Penny kicking her out of the nestbox to lay? (there is another nestbox available, but evidently it's not as good....

)

It sounds like very normal broody behavior. As long as she is not laying.she is broody. When you give her eggs..make sure you mark them.

Egg Size Question:

2 of my 14 mo. old chickens are laying what I consider to be pullet sized eggs. One is a BR; the other a blue egg layer. Eggs are heavy with good shells.

The other BR produces what I would consider to be normal size, the other color egg layer has large eggs.

Would this possibly be a nutrition issue?

I know we usually look at an egg and say define it by large, med, small, etc. visually...but I think the standard is really by weight. I'm curious enough about this that I'd like to have an egg scale and compare weights on these eggs.

No..egg size is mostly genetic. Eggs can become smaller or larger as they age. They can reduce in size because of internal issues, but there would be other signs. Your birds are still young..do not worry.

I have six hens, and one late last year started having yellow crust along with each individual feather disintegrating from the base outward. Any thoughts? It seems to have spread to two more hens. Starting around the base of the tail and up the back. I'm wondering what causes this and if Diatomaceous Earth would help. Hoping to keep them chemical free.

Could be internal shaft mites.

Hi all

I am a long term lurker on this thread and really love reading all the info that is shared.

I have two questions that I am hoping to get some advise on...

I keep getting broken eggs. I think I know the chicken that is doing it but have no idea of how to stop it. I have in total 6 chickens of which 4 are recently introduced but the egg breaking has been happening for a while now. It started when I only had 2 and I thought it was perhaps something(animal) that was coming into the garden that was going into the coop and getting the eggs as I found 2 that were on the opposite side of the garden to where the coop was. Because I was worried about predators getting into the garden, I fenced of an area to confine the girls which is 10.5 meters long x 4.5 meters wide (ish) so they have plenty of space to scratch etc and collected eggs in the morning before work (if they laid) and on weekends I watch them and as soon as they finish laying, I collect the eggs but during the week, I only manage to collect 1 egg before I have to leave for work. The eggs are not completely broken and eaten, they just have a hole poked in them. I do not give them the raw egg to eat, but do give them the shells after they have been dried out in the oven.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how to stop the egg breaking? Should I close off the nest that they are using in which they break the eggs. The eggs in the 2nd nest are not broken.

My other problem is with one of my new hens. She has runny poop. Other than this, she looks and acts absolutely fine. She is very skittish and I have not been able to catch her to check her vent but although she had a messy bum when I got her, now it is clean.

I have avc in their water which is refreshed every day. I have started them on fermented layers with fresh garlic and oregano in it which they gobbled up at first but today they did not eat it.

I have tried fermented food a number of times but my original two just don't like it. My new ones loved it but today did not eat it much except for the girl with the runny poop. The fermented feed is not off so I don't understand why they are not eating.

Has anybody got any ideas that I can try to clear up the runny poop.

Thanks all

Birds will peck egg shells to test them for hatching quality. Mice also eat a small hole in the egg shell.

i will be on this post every night now

Nice to see you Bruce!!

Quote: Stop giving them anything other than the FF

Warning! Graphic necropsy images of turkey chick

Just when I thought I was going to slide through Spring into Summer without much incident to discuss, found a dead turkey poult this afternoon.

A real mystery and has me scratching my head.


The six Blue Slate poults just turned three weeks old. I celebrated by turning them out in their own run in the lovely Rye grass I planted for them. I had them in a cage with a wire bottom for the first two weeks. They were looking and acting wonderful. Growing, exploring, and flapping their wings. The last two nights they were roosting eighteen inches off the ground! They've been on Turkey/Gamebird starter mash that I ferment with garlic powder, pepper seeds, and Oregano. They love it.





I fed them this morning as usual and even though it was misty out and threatening to rain, I let them out in the grass for an hour to forage and play. When it got down to 47 degrees and started to rain, I put them in and turned on their light bulb above the roost. All was well. All were acting normal and eating and drinking. Because they are three weeks old now, I have been keenly observing behavior for any abnormality.

Imagine my surprise and sadness to check on them an hour later and find the largest and healthiest acting chick dead in the shavings! It looked like it was sleeping with it's neck out stretched and eyes closed. The wings were out and it's legs underneath it. Another chick was cuddled up to it like they usually do to stay warm. The body of the dead poult was still warm.
I did a thourough examine of the extremities. No wounds. I suspected broken neck. They have been trying to fly. No breaks or contusions that I could see.

So I did a complete necropsy.

x

Not a mark on it. Back
x

Front. There was dried fecal matter on it's vent. It was normal in shape, color, and consistency.

x

The cavity looked normal. No abnormal smell. No blockage in the trachea or esophagus. Muscle tissue well formed, good tone and color.

x
Opening the beak further, allowed me to carefully check the back of the throat. It was normal.
I carefully felt the entire length of the trachea and esophagus looking for blockage or foreign objects. I opened the crop and found a teaspoon of fermented feed. No abnormal smell or marks.


All organs looked normal. The contents of the gizzard smelled like garlic as it should. Fermented feed, grass, and grit. Normal.

I examined the ceca and lower intestine. Normal. No sign of disease or worms to my eyes.



I rinsed and peeled the gizzard lining off to reveal the inner mucosa. The Provintriculis lining also looks normal.

This chick was in good health an hour before death. It's body was in good flesh. It had no external parasites. It seems to me it just lay down and died. Maybe it's heart just stopped for reasons that escape me?

I am no expert on anything but I did my best to give this guy his best chance of a healthy life. His death is a real mystery.

This necropsy is shared here for educational purposes. If anyone here on this thread sees something in the images or has some insight, please share with me.

I'm kinda bummed. I thought this little guy was going to be a super great Blue Slate Tom. (My hunch was correct. He had tiny testes forming.)

Mumsy..only one suggestion..take the rest of the baby's temps. It might be picture quality, but I see inflamed intestines. The poult looks very healthy other wise.

Quote: I was shocked at the posts..I jumped threw them..sorry if I missed any important ones.

 

[RedRidge]

Delisha, very well put on the feed ration post. I believe most people do not understand how to properly balance rations according to the different management needs of different groups and subgroups. Your explanation was very accurate in my opinion.

 

[delisha]

Quote: I do not want to use this for an example and I apologize to you both if I somehow hurt feelings for using this , It is not my intent..but feel we must somehow understand about text and sharing opinions and information. This is not the only one and there are way to many lately. It seems that people who freely share experiences have to start clarifying. Do we have to start clarifying? Do I have to put a disclaimer on every text or bit of information I share? I would like everyone to be able to post information with out feeling like they are being attacked or what they share has no value or feel someone is going to jump on them. There is simply no need to correct anyone for stating their experiences and what works for them. If I make a statement or share my own personal experiences and you have questions..please feel free to ask them. Please don't attack me, or challenge me. Or anyone else for that matter. ( I really only care about me)

 

[Mrs.SB]

I agree, I've learned so much from reading this thread. I would hate for anyone to stop sharing

 

[salt and pepper]

This is just my opinion.. All situations are different. You must care for your birds what way works for you. I have never stated anyone should do it my way. I specifically stated it was an opinion and my very own opinion. If what you are doing is working for you..that is fantastic and you should continue to do it!! I freely share my knowledge and experience.


Protein is important for all animals. But for poultry, in producing eggs and growing to produce meat, the meat protein part of their feed regimen is crucial. It is also expensive! Finding good quality, cheap protein is one of the challenges of raising and keeping chickens. This is where the small farmer/chicken raiser can increase family health through creativity. Buying bagged feed with 20& proteins that are all plant based is not what a chicken needs to be healthy. IMO They need animal protein. 16% protein with a large portion animal protein is better for the birds than any 20% plant based proteins could ever be. I do not need anyone to agree with me or disagree it is my opinion.

Thank you, that makes sense. I do have some 16% Layers, so maybe I can start mixed that with my other fermented feed.