The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[aoxa]

Just a note on the ff and sour crop...

Some folks have encouraged using YEAST in the fermented feed. This is NOT good fermented feed practice and is likely the cause of any issue that someone may have w/ sour crop.

When fermenting feed, LACTIC FERMENTATION should be used - not yeast fermentation. There is a complete write-up on the differences of these on the blog.

If lacto-fermentation is used, you won't smell yeast or alcohol in the feed. Even if you haven't added yeast to the mix, natural occurring yeasts are in the air and on surfaces everywhere. The key is to keep the yeasts under control by having lactic acid producing bacteria having the upper hand in the mix. Balance is key.

This is just another reason that: If your fermented feed ever smells of Yeast/Mold or Alcohol DO NOT FEED IT!

I don't feed my ferment the same way as you do .

I start with ACV. I don't let water sit on top (because it is just too hard to feed if I do), but otherwise the smells are the same. Sour, not yeasty or moldy. I have had it smell like alcohol when I started too big of a batch just for chicks and did not replenish the food - but I still fed it. They didn't get sour crop, but their development was delayed.

I have since stopped doing such big batches, as it is just too much.

 

[Leahs Mom]

As long as you have the "sour" smell and not the yeast/mold, you know you're not out of balance with the yeasts.

Starting out by putting the ACV in as you do can help acidify the mix initially just enough that it can help keep bad bacteria and yeasts from growing out of control until the LABs can establish themselves as dominant.

The main thing is to get those LABs dominant and keep them that way if you keep your ff going over weeks/months

 

[midnightroo]

Ff question. I dumped the ff I started a few days ago. I put in fresh oregano and it didn't smell right this morning, so in the compost it went, chickens can't access it right now. Am I correct in assuming the oregano changes the smell or can be put in the ff while fermenting? Also, I want to keep all my chicken supplies in the basement, including the ff, but my cat's litter is down there. Is there a chance bad bacteria from the litter could get in the ff? As far as I know the cat has no health issues and the basement is unfinished so it is moist down there even with a dehumidifier running most of the time. I am over thinking this aren't I?

Sick hen went out with the others this morning. Looked like her crop went up again after eating, but I will watch her some, she did the head jerking thing. A few minutes ago besides being thin she resembled my other hen in the crop area. She had a raw egg, yogurt and some moist feed with garlic on it this morning.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: I usually put any additives in the feed bowl when I feed rather than in the fermenting container. That way you don't have any question and you get the benefit of the herbs, etc. going right in the feed fresh or dried. Just stir them in when you feed.


Quote: There is always the possibility of environmental bacteria and molds cross-contaminating. HOWEVER...if you have a good strong LAB colony "in charge", it should keep out the bad guys.

Try it and see how it goes! Put a lid on the feed that is capable of "off-gassing" but keeps the feed from being "wide open".

Then...use your nose. If "bad bacteria" get in there and begin to proliferate or take things out of balance, it will smell putrid (rotten). You already know to be looking for yeast, moldy, or alcohol smells.


A couple of times in my ff history I got a layer of "powdery mold" on the top surface water. I could tell it was going out of balance before I even saw that layer as the smell changed before I could see it w/my eyes. At that time, my batches were very small so it wasn't a great loss if I dumped it and started over.

One batch that got out of balance I worked with to remedy the problems, got it back in balance, and continued to feed. (If you want to know how to try this, pm me.)

Another bad batch I dumped on the compost. This was in the winter so it had about 3 weeks of time to set out and decompose with other items being added regularly to the pile before the birds were allowed to go to the compost pile and they ate what was in the compost so I didn't totally lose the feed!

I think I could have given it a 1-2 week compost time in warmer weather and let the birds eat from the pile with no problem.

 

[Bulldogma]

I am WAY late to this discussion been swamped at work ... so if someone else has already offered up this advice please ignore. My bantam cochins got sour crop when I switched to FF back on the old thread Bee suggested Olive leaf Extract ... I did try this and I'm not sure it worked... also I tried kyolic (aged garlic extract) BUT the one MIRACLE thing that I found after searching thread after thread was Red Wine .... You MUST withhold food or grain based food as Aoxa says its a yeast infection and sugars feed yeast. Give them a dropper full of Red Wine and wait .... I also massaged the crop in a downward motion blah blah blah.... Come back later and if it is not gone give them more Red wine ... The hen should be cured in 12-24 hours ... I gave mine yogurt too.... Another chicken owner had the same problem and I told her about the wine ... she was skeptical but emailed the next day say it was a miracle! So thats my 2 cents....

Thank you for sharing this! It's always good to have a variety of experiences and information!

This one year old black orpington is my rooster's favorite but I haven't seen anyone pecking at her. I don't see mites. I'm treating with NuStock. Early May I treated twice and it calmed the firey red skin well, but now it's inflamed again so I'm using NuStock every other day for longer than two treatments. My flock number is 10: 1 roo to 9 hens. Two hens are broody right now and one has a brood so those three are out of commission for roo.
Is NuStock every other day too much? Should I continue until I see feather regrowth? Should I get a chicken saddle? Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thank you in advance

For this particular girl, I would try a hen saddle until she is healed.

 

[midnightroo]

I usually put any additives in the feed bowl when I feed rather than in the fermenting container.  That way you don't have any question and you get the benefit of the herbs, etc. going right in the feed fresh or dried.  Just stir them in when you feed.


There is always the possibility of environmental bacteria and molds cross-contaminating.  HOWEVER...if you have a good strong LAB colony "in charge", it should keep out the bad guys.

Try it and see how it goes!  Put a lid on the feed that is capable of "off-gassing" but keeps the feed from being "wide open".

Then...use your nose.  If "bad bacteria" get in there and begin to proliferate or take things out of balance, it will smell putrid (rotten).  You already know to be looking for yeast, moldy, or alcohol smells. 


A couple of times in my ff history I got a layer of "powdery mold" on the top surface water.  I could tell it was going out of balance before I even saw that layer as the smell changed before I could see it w/my eyes. At that time, my batches were very small so it wasn't a great loss if I dumped it and started over.

One batch that got out of balance I worked with to remedy the problems, got it back in balance, and continued to feed.  (If you want to know how to try this, pm me.)

Another bad batch I dumped on the compost.  This was in the winter so it had about 3 weeks of time to set out and decompose with other items being added regularly to the pile before the birds were allowed to go to the compost pile and they ate what was in the compost so I didn't totally lose the feed!

I think I could have given it a 1-2 week compost time in warmer weather and let the birds eat from the pile with no problem.

Thanks Leahs mom, I will give it a try in the basement. Without anything in it. Is it ok if I pm you in the future if I have a problem?

 

[Leahs Mom]

Pm any time

 

[aoxa]

As long as you have the "sour" smell and not the yeast/mold, you know you're not out of balance with the yeasts.

Starting out by putting the ACV in as you do can help acidify the mix initially just enough that it can help keep bad bacteria and yeasts from growing out of control until the LABs can establish themselves as dominant.

The main thing is to get those LABs dominant and keep them that way if you keep your ff going over weeks/months

I actually found a local source for unpasturized, with mother ACV at the market. I am so loving buying exclusively local and organic.

Though I messed up and had Pizza last night and my stomach is kicking my butt for it this morning. :/

I am extremely sensitive to bacon that is not from pasture raised pigs. I don't know WHY... Every time I have bacon (I love bacon - don't judge me) I get bad IBS flare ups.. Except last weekend. Had bacon twice from this pasture raised pigs and both times I felt perfectly fine. I have been eating her pork chops and pork patties and pork steaks.. Lots of other pork products, but I stayed clear of the bacon. Wish I hadn't of waited so long. It is so good..

My Naked Neck Lucy has laid an egg every day for 10 days now. She started 2 weeks ago and was laying outside (dogs got the eggs) and once it started raining she figured it out.. She is a champ!

 

[Leahs Mom]

I LOVE BACON TOO!

I have a source for local raised that doesn't cure using the nitrates/nitrites except with the natural celery powder. I have never tasted bacon that was so "real", and now when I try any other store-bought I can tell such a difference that I can hardly eat it!

I think what you're noticing is the difference in feed in the pasture vs. factory farm...just like chicken, beef, etc. Same old story - if they eat what they, and their meat, is healthier and tastes much better.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Aoxa - you might try a experiment and make some old-fashioned sour dough (fermented)... try making a pizza dough from it and see how it effects you. Many folks that have gluten issues find it's not an issue with the fermented dough.

(AM I STARTING TO SOUND LIKE A "BROKEN RECORD"?

)