The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[aoxa]

Sooo I think we have our first case of Cocci here..

Chicks are lethargic. 2 died right after we got them. I didn't think much of it, as we had 90 of them. Thought it was a small # for the amount we received, but lost two more and they look slugish and lethargic. They have been on FF, but we stopped it since it is hard to keep the bugs away (even with cover!) So now they have dry unmedicated feed.

I have no idea what to do. Losing 90 birds is a huge blow to our wallet.. as we spent over $200 on them.

No blood in stool that I can see. They aren't crowded (yet) as they are still small.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Susan said two more are dying and many of the rest all look sluggish this morning. I figure Cocci is not something to mess with and we should get Corid or something like that..

This all started last night. Yesterday morning they all had loads of energy.

 

[Pozees]

Sooo I think we have our first case of Cocci here..

Chicks are lethargic. 2 died right after we got them. I didn't think much of it, as we had 90 of them. Thought it was a small # for the amount we received, but lost two more and they look slugish and lethargic. They have been on FF, but we stopped it since it is hard to keep the bugs away (even with cover!) So now they have dry unmedicated feed.

I have no idea what to do. Losing 90 birds is a huge blow to our wallet.. as we spent over $200 on them.

No blood in stool that I can see. They aren't crowded (yet) as they are still small.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Susan said two more are dying and many of the rest all look sluggish this morning. I figure Cocci is not something to mess with and we should get Corid or something like that..

This all started last night. Yesterday morning they all had loads of energy.

Bummer. Found this:

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1138/coccidiosis-control

Key points to remember regarding treatment are:

• Pick for treatment the drug most likely to be effective for the type of coccidiosis that you want to control
• Ensure the water lines have been flushed and do not contain residues of other drugs or water-administered supplements (vitamins, electrolytes, etc.)
• Sulphonamides are more stable and effective at neutral to alkaline water pH
• Remember that the required withdrawal periods varies between sulphonamides, and
• Be mindful of label directions and withdrawal periods to ensure efficacy and avoid tissue residues.

Table 4 lists the drugs available for the treatment of coccidiosis in broilers, the manufacturer's recommended dosages, duration of therapy and type of coccidiosis most likely to respond favourably.

Table 4. Guidelines for Treatment of Coccidosis in Broiler Chickens1

Trade Name​

Active Ingredient​

Dosage & Treatment Duration2​

Type of Coccidiosis Most Likely to Respond Favourably
Amprol 9.6% oral solution​

Amprolium​

41 fl oz/gallon stock solution for 3-5 days; then 10.25 fl oz/gallon stock solution for 7 days​

Severe outbreaks of caecal coccidiosis
Amprol 9.6% oral solution​

Amprolium​

20.5 fl oz/gallon stock solution for 3-5 days; then 10.25 fl oz/gallon stock solution for 7 days​

Moderate outbreaks of caecal coccidiosis
Amprol 128 - 20% soluble powder​

Amprolium​

20 oz/gallon stock solution for 3-5 days; then 5 oz/gallon stock solution for 7 days​

Severe outbreaks of caecal coccidiosis
Amprol 128 - 20% soluble powder​

Amprolium​

10 oz/gallon stock solution for 3-5 days; then 5 oz/gallon stock solution for 7 days​

Moderate outbreaks of caecal coccidiosis
Albon - 12.5% drinking water solution & soluble powder​

Sulphadimethoxine​

0.05% in the drinking water for 6 consecutive days​

Outbreaks of intestinal coccidiosis
Various​

Sulphaquinoxaline​

0.04% in the drinking water for 2 days; off 3 days; 0.025% in the water for 2 days; off 3 days; 0.025% in the water for 2 days​

Severe outbreaks of intestinal coccidiosis
Various​

Sulphaquinoxaline​

0.025% in the drinking water for 2 days; off 3 days; on 2 days; off 3 days; on 2 days​

Moderate outbreaks of intestinal coccidiosis
Poultry Sulfa​

Sulphamethazine; Sulphamerazine; Sulphaquinoxaline​

0.04% solution for 2 days; plain water for 3 days; 0.4% solution for 2 days​

Coccidosis caused by E. necatrix or E. tenella​

1 Always read and strictly adhere to manufacturer's label directions for use and withdrawal periods
2 Dosages per gallon of stock solution based on medicator set to dispense 1 fl oz/gallon of drinking water.

 

[Pozees]

Also this:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/186479/milk-flush-for-coccidiosis

So many people have issues and ask questions about coccidiosis that I thought I would post this milk flush treatment that I cam across. This is a treatment that a college agricultural dept. came up with. You can break it down into a smaller portion but this is as it was listed.

4 pounds of dried milk
2 pounds of corn meal
2 pounds of oatmeal
1 pound of bran

Feed this for 3-5 days with no other feed except some greens. The large amount of milk makes the chicks thirsty, causing them to drink. The milk sugar will turn to acid in the stomach and the extra added water will flush out the system.

Maybe this will help some of you that has a hard time finding the corid/amprol in your area.

 

[RedRidge]

Key points to remember regarding treatment are:

• ...
• Sulphonamides are more stable and effective at neutral to alkaline water pH

Please note.... Alkaline water...!!!! Best for humans and animals both, and more effective for treatment.
Even when not treating an illness alkaline water should be the goal.
MOST bottled water and MOST city water is acidic. SOME" well water" is alkaline.
Ours is, thank goodness, but many people haven't checked theirs. pH imbalance is one of several causes of intestinal imbalance.

Yep... I'm a freak about everything to goes into (or will NOT go into) our animal's bodies and ours bodies... I admit it...

 

[aoxa]

Please note.... Alkaline water...!!!! Best for humans and animals both, and more effective for treatment.
Even when not treating an illness alkaline water should be the goal.
MOST bottled water and MOST city water is acidic. SOME" well water" is alkaline.
Ours is, thank goodness, but many people haven't checked theirs. pH imbalance is one of several causes of intestinal imbalance.

Yep... I'm a freak about everything to goes into (or will NOT go into) our animal's bodies and ours bodies... I admit it...

Redridge, I know hard water treated with water softner is not a good idea for turkeys.. Could this be a sodium overload possibly?

They are only 7 days old. What I've been reading says from day 10 - week 8 are the most susceptible to Cocci.

I did not clean out the pen from the last chicks. It was not dirty enough, and I was sure it would only help them. Could this be a cause? Other than the 3 weeks the other chicks were in that pen, the pen has been unused. Not one single chick died from this with my heritage breeds or silkies.

Not only my meaties are dying. My Pennies are as well. WE're up to six lost.

I haven't been giving ACV, but I have it. I am a big procrastinator and didn't take it down to the barn yet, and it's in a huge bottle.

I caught it last night. I can not leave work to go home and administer the Corid. Can they wait until 3pm? I know I will lose some, which makes me very upset, but I'm too far from home to go on my lunch hour.

I still refuse to feed medicated feed...

 

[RedRidge]

Ugh! I am NOT a vet AOXA...
I have never fed medicated feed and while I do add ACV to my FF, I have never added it to my water.
I am rather a minimalist I admit it. All of the "extra" stuff that folks like to do is just not my idea of raising healthy livestock... but that's just me.
My experience with cocci is limited to lambs year's ago... and they weren't mine.
My understanding with cocci is that the ground is the biggest culprit... is your brooding pen on the ground?
I use plastic corrugated sheets on the floor of my raised brooder - I can take them out and hose them off that way... dry them for the next season and put them back.
I have had 4 groups of chicks this year and did not clean out my raised brooder between the last 2 groups because it just didn't need it.
No problems...
I only change out bedding in my coops once a year... they are dirt floors I toss flakes of straw into periodically... nothing but the appearance of an accumulation of "ground dirt" at the end of that year (great compost).
Maybe I have just dodged bullets... but I simply don't go to all the trouble many folks do... ACV in water, medicated feed, concrete floors in coops, changing out bedding frequently.... I have never had a health issue or a parasite.
This is NOT bragging... this is make folks aware that resistance to things can be lowered my immaculate management and over management in my opinion.
I say all of this to hopefully put your mind at ease.... I have a very hands off approach... not just all natural, but don't believe in having to use what I consider "band aids".
Feed healthy... go from there... and I know you do, so don't think it's something you've missed.

All that said... while I am into prevention without intervention... I won't hesitate to treat when necessary.
I keep corid... I've never used it... it's probably expired. I have loaned it to three other people over the last few years though. LOL
Everyone within 2 hrs of me knows to call if they need something the feed stores are out of or don't carry.
I like to be prepared and live hours from the closest vet, so...

None of this "helps" you today other to ease your mind some I hope... but if it were me... I'd treat with Corid... provide raw ground liver and/or heart (along with their FF)... fresh alkaline water daily. I would only move them to a new location if I really thought their current location was contagious. I say that because moving chicks to new homes causes stress... stress exacerbates any health issue that may already exist. If I was going to do something else... I'd add a Vit E supplement to their water. IF it was just the meaties I'd have to wonder if this isn't what it is... but since it's other breeds too I'm not so sure... but it can't hurt to supplement some Vit E - especially if they have a lot of polyunsaturated fats in their diet. Just another brainstorm. You can even drench the sick ones with a syringe with Vit E. I have only run into this with meaties, never laying birds, but the vit E helped within 24 hrs. Nutridrench is something I keep on hand as well.

Please update us... I hope things turn around...
How is their poo looking now? what color is it? is it dark?
Are their legs appearing weak?

 

[aoxa]

Ugh! I am NOT a vet AOXA...
I have never fed medicated feed and while I do add ACV to my FF, I have never added it to my water.
I am rather a minimalist I admit it. All of the "extra" stuff that folks like to do is just not my idea of raising healthy livestock... but that's just me.
My experience with cocci is limited to lambs year's ago... and they weren't mine.
My understanding with cocci is that the ground is the biggest culprit... is your brooding pen on the ground?
I use plastic corrugated sheets on the floor of my raised brooder - I can take them out and hose them off that way... dry them for the next season and put them back.
I have had 4 groups of chicks this year and did not clean out my raised brooder between the last 2 groups because it just didn't need it.
No problems...
I only change out bedding in my coops once a year... they are dirt floors I toss flakes of straw into periodically... nothing but the appearance of an accumulation of "ground dirt" at the end of that year (great compost).
Maybe I have just dodged bullets... but I simply don't go to all the trouble many folks do... ACV in water, medicated feed, concrete floors in coops, changing out bedding frequently.... I have never had a health issue or a parasite.
This is NOT bragging... this is make folks aware that resistance to things can be lowered my immaculate management and over management in my opinion.
I say all of this to hopefully put your mind at ease.... I have a very hands off approach... not just all natural, but don't believe in having to use what I consider "band aids".
Feed healthy... go from there... and I know you do, so don't think it's something you've missed.

All that said... while I am into prevention without intervention... I won't hesitate to treat when necessary.
I keep corid... I've never used it... it's probably expired. I have loaned it to three other people over the last few years though. LOL
Everyone within 2 hrs of me knows to call if they need something the feed stores are out of or don't carry.
I like to be prepared and live hours from the closest vet, so...

None of this "helps" you today other to ease your mind some I hope... but if it were me... I'd treat with Corid... provide raw ground liver and/or heart (along with their FF)... fresh alkaline water daily. I would only move them to a new location if I really thought their current location was contagious. I say that because moving chicks to new homes causes stress... stress exacerbates any health issue that may already exist. If I was going to do something else... I'd add a Vit E supplement to their water. IF it was just the meaties I'd have to wonder if this isn't what it is... but since it's other breeds too I'm not so sure... but it can't hurt to supplement some Vit E - especially if they have a lot of polyunsaturated fats in their diet. Just another brainstorm. You can even drench the sick ones with a syringe with Vit E. I have only run into this with meaties, never laying birds, but the vit E helped within 24 hrs. Nutridrench is something I keep on hand as well.

Please update us... I hope things turn around...
How is their poo looking now? what color is it? is it dark?
Are their legs appearing weak?

Thanks for all this. Really means a lot for you to walk me through it.

I've had a very hands off approach. They are only one week old today after all. I was going to turn them loose outside this weekend, as it's going to be in the high 80's, but I am going to put that off if the corid doesn't work right away.

The layers are actually looking more lethargic than the meaties. They walk slow. Sleep standing up. Wings look puffed up, held a little away from body (not like a hot appearance at all - look more cold than hot!) But they have ample heat. Definitely not too cold.

Before this, I have never had an issue with cocci. I had a scare with bloody stool back in December, but it wasn't cocci. Never treated, and they never showed any other signs other than bloody stool.

But these chicks are definitely ill.

Oh they are on concrete. They are in the pens inside the hallway, which is concrete. The older chickens are on crushed stone with dirt over that and shavings on top of the dirt.


They are in the pen to the left. It is 14 x 4'


I only planned to keep them in here until they outgrew it. After that I was going to move them to the main barn.

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry about the coccidia out break Aoxa. The dosage of the Corid is: liquid 2 teaspoonful per gallon and powder is 1/2 teaspoonful per gallon water. Stop any ACV or vitamins and make it the only source of water. Change water every 24 hours, and treat for 5-7 days. Since most broilers are treated with a preventative dose of Corid, I might consider keeping them on a lower dose after the initial treatment, and keeping them on that until 24 hours before they are processed. Apparently coccidia is present in most broiler houses, and the oocysts can be brought into your farm by broiler litter or even a beetle that is present in the litter. I would treat all my chickens, turkeys, ducks, ect.

 

[RedRidge]

Before this, I have never had an issue with cocci. I had a scare with bloody stool back in December, but it wasn't cocci. Never treated, and they never showed any other signs other than bloody stool.

Your setup is a LOT nicer than mine... And much cleaner by the looks of it since I have no concrete.

Am curious... when you say bloody stool is it red or black. My experience with cocci is that black stools are what you worry about.
Not sure if this is true for chicks, but it is for lambs.
Also I'm curious... if it wasn't cocci back in Dec do you know what is was?
Would like to know what the other options are for future reference...

Let us know how they do.
We've had SO much rain here this year that I've been more paranoid about parasites than usual. Thus far we have dodges this bullet, but since I just got back from the barn (after another 4" of rain in the past few days) I can't help but worry.

 

[Alibabe]

Sorry about the coccidia out break Aoxa.

x 2. I really hope you get it sorted out and the chicks back to health.