The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Leahs Mom]

I have one BR hen that had them. As soon as I got her, we sprayed her legs with cooking oil twice a day for 3 days. It's the easiest way we have found to smother them. The one we use foams up and really does a good job.

When you say it "foams up" are you talking about the cooking oil?
Did it only take 3 days of spraying to take care of the problem?
Did the scales slough off ... and how long did that take?

 

[aoxa]

When you say it "foams up" are you talking about the cooking oil?
Did it only take 3 days of spraying to take care of the problem?
Did the scales slough off ... and how long did that take?

1) cooking oil
2) Killed them instantly, just continued to do it to be sure.
3)some of her scales sloughed off, but still some rough ones that need to be soaked so they can fall off as well.

 

[delisha]

I can't help on the cochins..sorry
I have never had them..I have a friend that has a pair and the male never shuts up. I have a neighbor that has a pair and I never hear him. That is all i know.

 

[aoxa]

My cochin boy rarely crowed. When he first started crowing, you could see him trying to stop himself, but it happened. He would crow a few times in a row, a few times a day. Not too loud of a crow.

The breed is known for being quiet most times. There are exceptions of course. They will crow. Just doesn't seem like as much as other breeds.

Also, my cochin x barred rocks never crowed before butcher. Not even by 22 weeks. They take a while to start.

 

[BrownEggsnHam]

I thought when using DE you are to use food grade. After reading on BYC, we have decided to not use it because it can be harmful to honey bees and other good insects. Since we have our first hive this year on our farm and want to add more in the near future, we are going to use the wood ash as some have suggested.

Can you supply a reference link for this 'fact'? I would love to read it.

DE, plain and simple, is like superfine sand.... sand is largely silica... as is DE (80-90%). The remaining ingredients are all typical earth elements found in soils everywhere. Its ability to 'kill' insects relies on the microscopic sharp edges of the crystalline structure of these fossilized algae diatoms. It has nothing to do with the chemical makeup of algae per se or that of any 'chemical' nature... but relies on its purely physical/mechanical means of death to the insect... which is a very environmental manner of pest control. The type of insect that is targeted by the use of DE is to the greatest extent, soft bodied crawling insects, i.e., slugs, snails, ants, lice (including aphids), mites, etc., which is why it's been used in organic gardening practices as a pest control for decades. The insect crawls over the microscopic 'knifeblades' of the crystalline DE lacerating its body which causes moisture loss/dehydration and ultimately death. Nothing at all to do with chemistry or a poisonous nature. The reason that DE isn't effective when it gets wet is that it has a tendency (as most earth elements) to bond tighter together (clumping) ... which greatly reduces the sharp cutting surfaces.

As you mentioned pickitfarm, one 'SHOULD' always use food grade when using around animals. I didn't include any mention or reference to that as it was my intent to clarify what Diatomatious Earth (DE) is and not the specifics of how/what to use. Food grade is only a higher quality from the refining aspect as DE is mined from the soil not made in a lab.

So in being harmful to honeybees and other good insects ... the answer would be ... highly debatable! Since bees are typically a flying insect and not a crawling insect it would be quite negligible in its harm to them. It would be somewhat harmful towards some beneficial insects, the predators of pest insects like minute pirate bugs, lady bug larvae, aphid midges, lacewing larvae, etc., if applied in those areas that they would likely habitate. However, your chickens shouldn't be infested with those (beneficial) type of critters nor should their 'house/run' be infested. Those beneficial critters live on plants and DE is used (regarding chickens) on the chicken's body, in and around the house and in the run areas. So yes, you could say that DE could be harmful to beneficial (garden) insects but those insects very rarely inhabit the areas that the DE would be used and since it is not a chemical spray like so many commercial garden insecticides, it doesn't have a poisoning effect drifting through the air as you apply it.

A side note to any harmful nature that DE could pose to beneficial insects, when used on chickens and in and around the chicken house/run areas.....
........ DE is not as harmful to those insects as the chickens are themselves... don't know about other people's chickens, but all of my chickens (and chicks from about 10 days old) eat every crawling thing (protein) they can see and find. That's even more effective at killing beneficial garden insects then DE, as its effectiveness is lost once wet... while the chickens keep on working....

P.S. --- I also have a Kenyan Top Bar Bee Hive and my bees don't seem to have a problem... but they stay away from the henhouse because there is no nectar there.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Depends on whether or not they were bred and reared in that environment for the last few generations. That is the only time you can truly trust them to know what is good for them. Different regions reinforce or dispel different instincts in animals bred there concerning what is food, etc. You can't trust a cage bred bird to know almost anything. People often think all chickens have the same instinct; they don't, it's entirely possible to breed instinct out, and has been done to massive degrees in many intensive production breeds. These are also those usually reared entirely in artificial environments on artificial feeds and are the ones most often falling victim to injury and death by eating the wrong thing.

As far as I've read, some of the agaric family as well as many other mushrooms are edible, there are thousands of edible species and even more that are toxic and only experts can tell between many of them. My silkie-pekin mix banties eat 'magic mushies' (as the frighteningly zombified people who eat them name them... These people will eat anything, barely survive the toxic ffects, call it a party drug and repeat that experience asap. I've known plenty of shroomheads and most of them are never coming back from where the shrooms put their minds, and they can't be trusted in any way). But the chooks seem fine on them.

Quote: A rooster's level of calm or friendliness (in my experience) has nothing to do with gender almost as a rule, except in a few strains of some breeds. I found male leghorns of all types but especially whites to be retarded. Literally. These were chooks who could have an open cage door at their side, and pace up and down facing the mesh, unable to figure it out. This just kept happening to my white male leghorns and their derivatives who showed close to type; they were raised with these cages as their feed, water and roost places, so went in and out multiply every day, but had to follow others in or out or they could not see the open doors. They were truly stupid in many other areas too. They would have average/normal intelligence sisters and mothers and daughters, but were incapable of simple, utterly basic comprehension in a few areas all other chooks take for granted.

I know not all male leghorns are like this, but the strains I've kept are, despite coming from over seven different breeders. The males had an extremely high incidence of aggression and sexual attraction towards humans and underage chickens, and were insanely noisy nonstop, as well as spacky as all heck. All of these unfortunate traits bred true much more often than not. The females were fine, normal, pretty placid. I eradicated all my leghorn strains out of the flocks. Could not be bothered. I think in this case it is something genetic which has been bred onto the male chromosome, since I have many males of many other breeds, and many mixes, and I mix them all and watch what breeds on, and have found in general there is no temperamental difference between a rooster and a hen in terms of who automatically shows a calm disposition. It's not based on gender in my experience except for in the case of leghorns, so I think it's just another example of don't blame the breed or gender, blame the breeder of that strain.

Concerning leaving a rooster unhandled so he is afraid of you, some swear by it, but I have many small children ranging unsupervised with the chooks and must have top quality nature males. Fear can and often does beget self defense from animals. Trusting, friendly attitudes are much safer and more reliable. I handle all mine from hatching onwards, and any excessively scared or otherwise unsettled male I cull or rehome.

I am never disrespected by any roosters, nor are any of us, and in my opinion any truly good rooster is tame and friendly, calm, and gentle with all creatures he should be. If you give him no reason to fear you and he does anyway, he will likely breed unreasonably frightened offspring who will be a pain in the butt to themselves, the other animals, and you in all areas of normal interaction, not to mention difficult to treat, handle, or tend. Likewise spacky hens are never allowed to become mothers because they will lose me babies. If I handle a cockerel and he refuses to settle, I cull; I'll spend time making a calm friendly acquaintance first then give him a good few tries to see if he can understand the whole 'peaceful interaction' thing, but if he can't or won't, that's it. In my experience even with very mixed genes, attitudes breed true the majority of the time. Carbon copies, mentality-wise, will crop up repeatedly and make me rue the day I thought to breed a rooster despite his flightiness or slightly snarky attitude towards others. What you put up with, breed on with, etc is a good indication of what you will get.

 

[lalaland]

i just saw a documentary that included some info an breeding program in siberia on silver foxes - it took 8 generations to breed out the aggressiveness that was normal for the breed. they selected the friendliest, least agressive foxes for breeding, and kept doing this. Now the specially bred foxes are friendly to humans, look to people for affection, etc - so that is what chicken owners are trying to do when breeding only the friendly roosters. 8 generations of chickens isn't that long!

Interestingly, the "friendly" foxes changed some body types - tails started to curl, ears were getting longer, even the color of the fur was changing. So it sounded to me as if someone breeding chickens to a standard would have trouble over time unless they went for the standards first, friendliness/non-agression second.

 

[delisha]

i just saw a documentary that included some info an breeding program in siberia on silver foxes - it took 8 generations to breed out the aggressiveness that was normal for the breed. they selected the friendliest, least agressive foxes for breeding, and kept doing this. Now the specially bred foxes are friendly to humans, look to people for affection, etc - so that is what chicken owners are trying to do when breeding only the friendly roosters. 8 generations of chickens isn't that long!

Interestingly, the "friendly" foxes changed some body types - tails started to curl, ears were getting longer, even the color of the fur was changing. So it sounded to me as if someone breeding chickens to a standard would have trouble over time unless they went for the standards first, friendliness/non-agression second.

Good reference to make your point..well done.

Most of the time, the disposition of the rooster is bred specific. Like in the earlier post, male leghorns can be unreasonable. If you bred leghorns, you choose the calmest disposition that meet the SOP. When breeding to the SOP you have to chose form first, but it should not be exclusive. The form does you no good if it is perfect and a spaz. You can't or should not use it for breeding no matter how pretty if it has mental issues. The same would apply to a beautiful hen who met the SOP and did not lay well. Form and function have to go together. It is our quest to find the perfect balance.Follow the SOP and have chickens that act like chickens in all ways.

Some breeders have bred lines of specific birds to meet the SOP and have made lines of that breed have low sperm count too. How that happened is like the foxes. You breed for generation for one specific trait and you loose other important traits. Breeding birds is no easy task.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
Thanks!

Did you spray the crevices around the roosts too? Anywhere else inside or outside the hen housing?


ETA: Did you catch each one and spray them good...or did you spray as they were milling around?

 

[aoxa]

Thanks!

Did you spray the crevices around the roosts too? Anywhere else inside or outside the hen housing?


ETA: Did you catch each one and spray them good...or did you spray as they were milling around?

I started before I even put her in the coop. The roosts didn't get put in until after her treatments were complete, so no worries there.

The cage we brought them in got a hose down. It was Henry's kennel. I don't think he'll catch the scaly leg mites

No we caught her. I held her, Susan sprayed.