The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[ki4got]

On your waterers:

-What size/type are they that the bulbs keep them thawed?
-On your Ceramic heaters - I have one but have never used it. Purchased it for brooding but that was a bad idea for various reasons. So - if I used if like you are, how do you keep the chickens from touching it and getting burned? (Very hot, they are! And no glow to warn.)

that's ALL I use for brooding... I hate lamps that disrupt the natural day-night cycle. with the emitters the chicks learn a normal rhythm, and my lights are on timers.

I simply hang it high enough above the bedding that the chicks can't reach it (my brooders are just under 18" tall, and I keep the base of the lamp right at the wire, about 12" up. never had a burn yet in... well, never had a burn since I started using them for anything back in about 2004 or so. (for reptiles originally)

if i'm worried about contact, I wire a piece of hardware cloth across the opening of the reflector. available anywhere from 40 to 250 watts, so they can suit a large number of uses when heat is required.

for incubators they stink, because the ceramic holds heat much longer than a light bulb. if I remember, I'll take a pic of my current brooder setup. those in VA that went to Gilmanor may have seen one in use with my SFH chicks today. because of the breeze, I had to lower the heat much closer to the babies than I normally would, but even 6" off the bedding, even the 3 week old SFH didn't get too close to burn, and they all had plenty of room to move away if they got too warm. (one chick had gotten a bit chilled earlier, but recovered rapidly once I put it closer to the bedding).

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
cooking can damage some of the vitamins and proteins. if it's fresh enough for people to eat, it'll be digested before anything nasty would grow on it.

think about chickens in a form vs function type manner... MOST birds with bare facial/head features tend to be opportunists who will eagerly dine on carrion as easily as fresh meat... that also includes some parrot species (macaws) as well. that bare skin is much easier to keep clean and free of food particles that could otherwise soil and damage their feathers.

this usually also means their digestive system is short enough and strong enough to process even some spoiled foods, without any problems. stronger digestive acids kill bacteria quickly and shorter GI tract process the nutrients rapidly and expel the waste before any toxins can become an issue.

 

[delisha]

Beef Liver ... and assorted beef offal ...

pros & cons?

anyone feeding this to their chickens/turkeys/ducks? If so, how? What kinds of quantities? Raw? Cooked? Dehydrated? Dehydrated and ground?

Anyone dehydrating beef liver in particular?

I've found a source for offal, at a VERY good price, and would like to know how best to utilize it, or even if it is a good idea.

No cons at all..raw is the best choice..chop it fine for small chicks other wise toss over the fence and watch chicken TV at its finest.

Quote: When you cook foods you loose so many good vitamins and nutrients. Cooking significantly deplete nutrients in all foods. Meats have enzymes and essential anti-oxidants, minerals such as selenium, potassium and magnesium which are lost with cooking.

I'm trying to raise my chickens naturally: free ranging, deep litter method.
Right now, I'm waiting for eggs.
(hums Final Jeopardy song)

lol

welcome to the group..glad to have you aboard..

Quote:
cooking can damage some of the vitamins and proteins. if it's fresh enough for people to eat, it'll be digested before anything nasty would grow on it.

think about chickens in a form vs function type manner... MOST birds with bare facial/head features tend to be opportunists who will eagerly dine on carrion as easily as fresh meat... that also includes some parrot species (macaws) as well. that bare skin is much easier to keep clean and free of food particles that could otherwise soil and damage their feathers.

this usually also means their digestive system is short enough and strong enough to process even some spoiled foods, without any problems. stronger digestive acids kill bacteria quickly and shorter GI tract process the nutrients rapidly and expel the waste before any toxins can become an issue.
well said

 

[BlueMouse]

If you happen to have a dehydrator, dehydrating can be a good solution for long term storage of excess beef livers as well. The low temperature drying destroys far less of the vital nutrients than say, cooking. You it's easy to dehydrate cut into long strips. You want to set up the dehydrator somewhere outside though because (trust me) it STINKS. To high heaven. But it will keep pretty much forever in a sealed container in a cool dark place.

 

[TeaChick]

lol

welcome to the group..glad to have you aboard..

Thank you!!!

I'm very happy to be here (as you can see <---) lol

I agree with whoever said that cooking damages nutrients, BTW.
How old are your chickens, you probably don't have to chop up the liver for them (what else were you wanting to feed them?)
lol chopped liver lol

 

[Leahs Mom]

I chop it small enough that it's appropriate for the size of the birds. My newly hatched kids will run around with a piece that's too big and it will dry right to their beak and they can't get it off. For them it has to be small.

Other reason I cut it into small pieces is so that each of them can get some. Otherwise some hog it all and fight the others away.


I also dehydrate but haven't tried liver yet. And I hear you about putting it outside! There are several items I dehydrate that I have to put the dehydrator outside for!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I think the topic of cooking foods is interesting, and people sure have strong opinions about it. I've looked at some informative charts about the "nutrition" present in various foods in various stages of "cooked" vs. "raw." Things do change ... some values go down a little, some go down a LOT, and some actually go up ... but what strikes me most about the information available about nutrition is that humans have different "needs" than other animals and it is best to not impose human nutritional needs/preferences on other animals. Or vice versa.

I do get that chickens are scratching, pecking, hunting machines ... as is pointed out they are designed to deal with raw/rotten/infested food better than humans. But ... and this is a big BUT for me ... I don't want to introduce salmonella to the flock or unbalance their parasite load, etc., and really only know about these things from a human perspective, so I'm being cautious with the birds. It doesn't help that there are so many industry scare tactics designed to push people (including farmers) toward industrialized poultry products.

Ugh!

I'm looking for an "all purpose" feed solution for my flock that can be supplemented with things like protein and calcium "on demand" ... and this opportunity to get some grass-fed "cow" offal has come along, so I'm really curious about it.

My main coop is inhabited by chickens of all ages and both genders (currently about 150 birds, I think!). Turkeys and ducks are in their own habitats. And ... this is a big consideration ... I want to keep the eggs tasting as delicious as they currently do. I have one customer who is very picky about the flavor of her eggs, and did a taste test of eggs from many sources, and she decided mine are the best tasting ... according to her, all the other eggs have a strange aftertaste ... so I'm paranoid about making changes!

I'm being cautious. Probably overly so!

 

[AletaG]

"I do get that chickens are scratching, pecking, hunting machines ... as is pointed out they are designed to deal with raw/rotten/infested food better than humans. But ... and this is a big BUT for me ... I don't want to introduce salmonella to the flock or unbalance their parasite load, etc., and really only know about these things from a human perspective, so I'm being cautious with the birds. It doesn't help that there are so many industry scare tactics designed to push people (including farmers) toward industrialized poultry products."

When I was researching a RAW diet for my dog... discovered that the rules regarding meat in this country are so tight, that I don't even worry about feeding him fresh pork... trichinosis has virtually been eliminated. There's probably a way to discover how often -if ever- Salmonella or parasites present in beef meats/offal. I'm hazarding a guess that you tend to feed your chickens mostly naturally? If you are feeding them lots of antibiotics on a regular basis (thereby upsetting their natural gut-load of good bacteria) then, I would not recommend feeding RAW. But, if you have healthy, unmedicated chickies, it seems logical they could process a natural food. And it would be fresher than they'd "naturally" find as a left-over hoover (or vulture, if you like).

30% protein sources aren't to sneeze at, that's for sure. If you are worried about flavor, maybe you could separate a hen for a week and make sure she gets a reasonable amount, and test them on your customer, if it would not freak her out. Some people like being in on experiments.

 

[SallyinIndiana]

The change could be a gradual one too. Then if there is a difference in taste the picky customer is less likely to notice.

 

[AletaG]

Hey all... found a few references to mites on this thread, DE, wood ash, neem oil... wondering if anyone has been using marigold - seeds, flower heads, leaves in any form? Have a friend who wants to try the "feather fixer"/mite control feed, but thinking for the price, if it's the Marigold in the ingredients.... Thoughts?