The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[TeaChick]

Del, is there anyway to hold the feed store or company responsible, at least partially?

That would be good.

 

[TeaChick]

Del - please keep records and take photos. Once things settle down and you have done what you can to save the remaining birds, you need to take action on this. In fact, you should probably at least report it right now so the feed store can warn other customers.

Either the feed store or Purina needs to help you with the vet, lab and replacement expenses. Either the feed store allowed the bagged feed to get wet and then sit, it got wet in transport or Purina put out a bad batch. It seems others have had similar issues with Purina feeds.

You have put an uncommon amount of time and effort into your breeds - far more than the average chicken keeper, and there is no way anyone should have sold a bag of feed that had not been properly handled!

This.

 

[TeaChick]

 And all those rare imported English Orps that cost so much money.

Vicki, this is not your fault. Don't blame yourself. 

Absolutely NOT your fault!

 

[delisha]

Quote: I have the numbers off the bag and it is a new company that the feed store just started stocking..I contacted the feed store so far..Not the company yet.

Coopchick,

I think it is so strange that the three should have underdeveloped ovaries if they came from two different sources and were different breeds. I must be wrong in my thinking that such a problem would be genetic and unrelated to nutrition. I know poor nutrition can stunt development, but can't believe that yours were malnourished as chicks! I'm wondering if the lab guy could shed more light on that...what his opinion might be.

The rest of your flock, any chickens that came from the same age group as the 3 or 4 that are laying? Am wondering if there are more chickens who "will never lay" because of underdeveloped ovaries.

I'm sorry to be so persistent, its just that your experience was so similiar to mine that I am wondering how, despite our best efforts at providing the best for our chickens, that we find these things happening!

After hearing of your results, I went out and added another feeding station. It will have to go away after the snows come, but....And I am planning on adding another shelter area this weekend so that the 10 chicks added this spring will have a place to be out of the snow and wind. Right now the underneath of the coop is a little crowded - it has haybale windblocks and the feed and water stations.

So a hen trying to stay out of everyone's way has a hard time. I have a sheet of plywood and some cement blocks...and will get some more hay. Dang, and I had other things I wanted to do this weekend@

The only thing I can add to nutrition is ...grass..sunshine..fresh water..exercise..and meat protein..

.sometimes too much..is just that..too much. Carbs and chickens do not do well together. Most bagged feeds are vegetable/grain proteins..no meat. hard to get an omnivore chick to develop correctly on a vegan diet.
Read a bit about what happens when you give chickens too much food that contain too many carbs and not enough meat proteins...yes they are pushing vegan feeds for spacific reasons. The birds fed a vegan diet are butchered out at 16weeks. It does not matter if they are developed...They are food.

Quote:
A special thank you for your links..calling right away I found one small bottle and had it over nighted.
Pro gel and Pro Max are great products. I use pro gel for shipping chicks and it is also used for drenching cattle. Pro max is a great product to get the gut back into condition immediately after a flush.

1. I flushed all the chickens with Epsom salt and Molasses.
I used 5 water containers (one gallon each) I mixed 1/2 qt of Molasses with 2 1/2 gallons of water and 2 tbs Epsom salt.
The next morning I gave them raw milk. Pro Gel and Pro Max.
The Detox came the next day and I have been doing it daily. I also ordered the Antibiotic and I do not think I am going to use it..not sure.
I have been using the Pro Max with one feeding a day.
I am letting them out tomorrow and I will see how they look.
I am pretty sure they are going to all recover..I am more worried about the consequences and after math. I have no idea if I runed my birds or not.

Coopchick, I generally have around 25ish (layers and growing capons) but right now 11. I had a preditor attack that killed my entire flock except for 3 broody moms and their chicks and one smart girl who got and stayed up high.

Especially since all your flock is doing well and you had the handful not doing well I would say it was more a problem w/ those birds themselves, either genetic or temperament, or unknown illness earlier in life that was chronic or had lasting results to them.

You alone know your birds and flock dynamics and husbandry. I would consider w/ a practical eye what the Dr. told you and w/ common sense make the changes you think will help if any (more feeding stations seems very practical) However keep in mind you don't want bad genetics or unthrifty birds mucking up your genetic base to your flock. For millennia animals have survived and even thrived in harsh mother nature b/c of their ability to cull the weak.

I agree 100%

Sorry to hear of your attack..

Quote:

Vicki, this is not your fault. Don't blame yourself.

X's 1000! Absolutely NOT your fault!

It is..I did not look at the feed. It was a new company I have never used. The feed look so different..I never looked close enough. I feed at 6am and it is not that light. I was lazy and careless. I need to take responsibility for it so it never happens again. I am my birds last defense. I knew it was a new company..I knew it looked different. You can't change things you do not accept.

Quote: My chickens are looking pretty normal and acting pretty normal. I have two I am a bit worried about..maybe three.
All the chicks are still alive and were running around when I got home today acting like chicks. They are 5 weeks old and it was 7 degrees out. They are outside.(I did bring two in the house two days ago. They are both standing since yesterday.

 

[Kassaundra]

Oh, thanks.
Do you eat chickens that were sick?

Mostly yes, I have never had one yet that was sick enough not to eat. Sepsis is nearly the only illness I would not touch for food. I can't think of any pathogen that would be in the flesh and still survive cooking. The one I just culled was for failure to thrive, not a typical "illness"

 

[TeaChick]

Del-
We are so glad things are going so well!!!
Hope everyone pulls through without damage! Hopefully, the only consequence is that their immune systems are strong from it!
Sorry for all the exclamation points. *blushes
I agree with you about taking responsibility and that you are your chickens' LAST defense, but do please at least try to hold the company and/or feed store responsible for them failing to provide you with the quality they promoted. Kwim?

 

[lalaland]

I have the numbers off the bag and it is a new company that the feed store just started stocking..I contacted the feed store so far..Not the company yet.

The only thing I can add to nutrition is ...grass..sunshine..fresh water..exercise..and meat protein..

.sometimes too much..is just that..too much. Carbs and chickens do not do well together. Most bagged feeds are vegetable/grain proteins..no meat. hard to get an omnivore chick to develop correctly on a vegan diet.
Read a bit about what happens when you give chickens too much food that contain too many carbs and not enough meat proteins...yes they are pushing vegan feeds for spacific reasons. The birds fed a vegan diet are butchered out at 16weeks. It does not matter if they are developed...They are food.

I never realized before this thread that there was an issue with vegie feed and that feed was turning into vegetarian. Mine have always had access to bugs.and often mice, and sometimes meat from kitchen scraps, or leftover minnows from fishing...but it wasn't until this thread that I started ensuring that the chickens get meat protein. I think it is only in the recent years that chicken feed didn't have some kind of animal protein. huh....wonder if that is why my earlier chicken keeping years were so trouble free?

A special thank you for your links..calling right away I found one small bottle and had it over nighted.
Pro gel and Pro Max are great products. I use pro gel for shipping chicks and it is also used for drenching cattle. Pro max is a great product to get the gut back into condition immediately after a flush.

1. I flushed all the chickens with Epsom salt and Molasses.
I used 5 water containers (one gallon each) I mixed 1/2 qt of Molasses with 2 1/2 gallons of water and 2 tbs Epsom salt.
The next morning I gave them raw milk. Pro Gel and Pro Max.
The Detox came the next day and I have been doing it daily. I also ordered the Antibiotic and I do not think I am going to use it..not sure.
I have been using the Pro Max with one feeding a day.
I am letting them out tomorrow and I will see how they look.
I am pretty sure they are going to all recover..I am more worried about the consequences and after math. I have no idea if I runed my birds or not.

I agree 100%

Sorry to hear of your attack..

It is..I did not look at the feed. It was a new company I have never used. The feed look so different..I never looked close enough. I feed at 6am and it is not that light. I was lazy and careless. I need to take responsibility for it so it never happens again. I am my birds last defense. I knew it was a new company..I knew it looked different. You can't change things you do not accept.

My chickens are looking pretty normal and acting pretty normal. I have two I am a bit worried about..maybe three.
All the chicks are still alive and were running around when I got home today acting like chicks. They are 5 weeks old and it was 7 degrees out. They are outside.(I did bring two in the house two days ago. They are both standing since yesterday.

Such good news! going to have to look into this ProGel and ProMax.

Happy Happy Thanksgiving, Delisha!

 

[TeaChick]

Mostly yes, I have never had one yet that was sick enough not to eat.  Sepsis is nearly the only illness I would not touch for food.  I can't think of any pathogen that would be in the flesh and still survive cooking.  The one I just culled was for failure to thrive, not a typical "illness"

Cool. Good to know.

 

[TeaChick]

Quoted from lalaland:
 
I never realized before this thread that there was an issue with vegie feed.  Mine have always had access to bugs.and often mice, and sometimes meat from kitchen scraps, or leftover minnows from fishing...but it wasn't until this thread that I started ensuring that the chickens get meat protein.  I think it is only in the recent years that chicken feed didn't have some kind of animal protein.   huh....wonder if that is why my earlier chicken keeping years were so trouble free?

ALL CAPS IS B/C I'M MOBILE. SORRY;NOT YELLING, NOT ANGRY.
I FURTHER WONDER IF THE VEGAN DIET TREND IS WHY STORE-BOUGHT CHICKEN " HAS NO FLAVOR" ???

 

[Pozees]

I have the numbers off the bag and it is a new company that the feed store just started stocking..I contacted the feed store so far..Not the company yet.

The only thing I can add to nutrition is ...grass..sunshine..fresh water..exercise..and meat protein..

.sometimes too much..is just that..too much. Carbs and chickens do not do well together. Most bagged feeds are vegetable/grain proteins..no meat. hard to get an omnivore chick to develop correctly on a vegan diet.
Read a bit about what happens when you give chickens too much food that contain too many carbs and not enough meat proteins...yes they are pushing vegan feeds for spacific reasons. The birds fed a vegan diet are butchered out at 16weeks. It does not matter if they are developed...They are food.



A special thank you for your links..calling right away I found one small bottle and had it over nighted.
Pro gel and Pro Max are great products. I use pro gel for shipping chicks and it is also used for drenching cattle. Pro max is a great product to get the gut back into condition immediately after a flush.

1. I flushed all the chickens with Epsom salt and Molasses.
I used 5 water containers (one gallon each) I mixed 1/2 qt of Molasses with 2 1/2 gallons of water and 2 tbs Epsom salt.
The next morning I gave them raw milk. Pro Gel and Pro Max.
The Detox came the next day and I have been doing it daily. I also ordered the Antibiotic and I do not think I am going to use it..not sure.
I have been using the Pro Max with one feeding a day.
I am letting them out tomorrow and I will see how they look.
I am pretty sure they are going to all recover..I am more worried about the consequences and after math. I have no idea if I runed my birds or not.

I agree 100%

Sorry to hear of your attack..

It is..I did not look at the feed. It was a new company I have never used. The feed look so different..I never looked close enough. I feed at 6am and it is not that light. I was lazy and careless. I need to take responsibility for it so it never happens again. I am my birds last defense. I knew it was a new company..I knew it looked different. You can't change things you do not accept.

My chickens are looking pretty normal and acting pretty normal. I have two I am a bit worried about..maybe three.
All the chicks are still alive and were running around when I got home today acting like chicks. They are 5 weeks old and it was 7 degrees out. They are outside.(I did bring two in the house two days ago. They are both standing since yesterday.

I admire your willingness to accept the part of this event that was your responsibility, and for pointing out that as keepers, we are the last line of defense for any creature dependent upon us for sustenance and security. That said, you are not solely responsible; but ... as a fellow keeper you are responsible for letting the feed company know what happened so the same thing does not happen to others using the same feed.

I totally comprehend what happened - I just switched my flock over to a new feed that looks completely different from what they were getting, so far they are loving it and it looks great, but quite honestly until I read what you had just experienced it would never have occurred to me to inspect it closely for any odor or appearance of mold. The feed company, the transporter, and the distributor (feed store) are all responsible for ensuring you are purchasing a product that is safe for your poultry.

I leave for work at 5:25 am. I make sure feeders are full in the evening, and I am fortunate to have a DH who has recently become what I call the Accidental Poultryman - he cleans waterers, puts birds out and back in, checks feeders, and collects eggs for me in the middle of the afternoon because I am at work and he is now retired and it's almost dark when I get home this time of year. I get to say hello and goodnight some nights, especially if I've had to work late. I deeply appreciate the fact he is now home all day and can call me if he thinks something can't wait until I get home. He wanted NOTHING to do with chickens when I returned to keeping last year, and has done a 180 the last few months - starting when I had to leave for 5 days for training, and I had to coach him on how to feed and water, how to collect and mark eggs, etc. It's been a rather remarkable transition, and he has started naming chickens and juveniles, which is sometimes hilarious (I have Shirley Partridge and Susan Dey Partridge Silkies now, Marathon Mama, Big Daddy, Daddio, Darryl (Hannah - Splash), Pencil Neck (Egyptian Fayoumi juvenile), etc.) - he has formed relationships with them, learned their personalities, and developed a sense of when things seem off. I don't know how I would ever repay him for the assistance he has provided the last few months.

Sorry, tangent. I know how it gets especially tough this time of year. You want to trust the person/company you bought the feed from, you believe you should be able to, and the truth is, you SHOULD be able to. I get that this is partly your responsibility but I do not believe it is SOLELY yours.

My $0.02