The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[CourtsCacklers]

Hi,
I'm new to raising chickens and BYC. We are starting our flock this spring. I have a million questions, and hope to work my way through this thread gathering answers. That said, I hope you don't mind one round of newbie questions. Right now, I'm concerned with raising chicks naturally. Is it wise to forgo vaccinations? Is it possible to get chicks from hatcheries without them? Same question for medicated feed. I want to be as natural as possible since our hens will be producing food for us, but I absolutely don't want to create suffering for any animal and a miserable experience for us. Vaccinated or not, are there certain breeds that are particularly hearty/disease-resistant? We're looking for birds that are good foragers but also able to tolerate confinement in the run/coop (we have severe predator activity). Grateful for any guidance you can give.

WELCOME!!!
Everyone so far has given you amazing advice-- though as they said-- opinions vary greatly. There is a thread about what what you wish you would have known before you got chickens that I read in it's entirity beore building my coop and getting my chickens. Even when you think you have thought of everything, you will learn something new... I also bought the book Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens" by Gail Damerow. It isn't heavy on "Natural" chicken keeping-- it is more educational facts about everything from choosing breeds, brooding chicks, raising layers, showing, etc... a good basic guide.... I recently previewed and ordered Harvey Ussery's "The Small Scale Poultry Flock" and Lisa Steele's "Fresh Eggs Daily" which are both great references in natural chick keeping.

Here's the what I wish I would have known thread:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...sh-you-had-known-before-you-got-your-chickens

 

[ki4got]

emalin, welcome to the world of chickens.

not knowing your location, everything everyone has said is good information... I will add a couple things I've learned.

build your coop and pen first. then you'll know how many birds it'll be capable of holding. a good estimate is 4 sq ft of coop splace per bird (2'x2' floor space) and 10 sq ft in a pen. depending on your location, IMO the coop can vary. here in sw Virginia it is rare to have a day when the birds won't come out of the coop, so I based my coop on roosting space, not floor space. 12" minimum roost space per bird (that is pretty much a standard anyways), but in colder climates, there may be days on end when they won't want to come out, so that is something to consider.

my own coop is an old, repurposed horse trailer with 4 6' roosts and I free range the birds living in there every day, once they're large enough to not be hawkbait...

I also suggest building ahead of time, because chicks grow a lot faster than people expect, while building can take a lot longer than you plan. LOL

another thing to consider... if you're wanting to breed (or might down the road) stick with one breed. otherwise you'll need multiple pens to keep each breed separated. my friends with only one primary breed have a huge advantage over me. LOL they can free range everyone every day and still have purebred birds, while my free rangers are all likely to produce mutts with an occasional purebred by pure chance.

you also asked about confinement and free ranging in the same breath. LOL penned and foraging are two different worlds IMO... my pens end up denuded quite rapidly so there is nothing to forage for, while some of my best foragers do NOT do well confined (and refuse to lay when they are).

as for breeds, are you looking for meat, eggs, show potential, etc? that might change what options are available... I have a number of different breeds, some are more for meat than eggs, tho they lay well enough, some are considered dual purpose, some are more ornamental but lay well too.. I refuse to keep a breed that is anything other than calm and easy going.

the breeds I have are:

Dorking - the 'original' meat/dual purpose breed with very fine textured meat and good flavor. they trace their roots back to ancient Rome and were brought to Britain by the roman conquerors. many breeds have roots in the Dorking. they are an 'ok' layer (3-5 cream to lightly tinted eggs a week) calm and laid back and very social with people, very good foragers and do ok with confinement as well. (they seem to like high ceilings and daytime roosts) they may be a bit broody at times though, and can be aggressive when on eggs or chicks, making them good mothers usually.

Wyandotte - another good dual purpose bird, with good flavor in the meat as well (but I prefer the Dorking for that) they are friendly and easy going but not as outgoing as the Dorking or SFH. they are also good layers (4-5 light brown eggs a week). They are also very good foragers and seem to tolerate confinement fairly well (they don't mind my shorter breeding pens). my 'dottes have gone broody, but not as often or consistently as some other breeds do.

Swedish Flower Hen (SFH) - this is a landrace breed from Sweden, having evolved over several hundred years to be excellent foragers. the breed is not recognized by the APA due to the wide variety of colors possible. these birds are exceptionally friendly and outgoing. often under foot. smaller than the dorking and 'dotte, I don't consider them a dual purpose breed, but as someone pointed out on another thread recently, every chicken is edible, you just get more meat on some than others.. They seem to be a pretty consistent layer of medium to large eggs (lightly tinted to light brown). as for confinement, some say they do well with large pens. my own started out free ranging and when pens refuse to lay for me... go figure. I have some growing out that will not free range until after they start laying, in the hopes that they will prove otherwise.

bantam Cochin - primarily considered an exhibition breed, they are also very friendly and easy going. hens lay fairly well (cream to light brown eggs) when they're not broody (which can be frequent!) and tend to give me a nice medium sized egg (some girls lay larger than others).

my last "breed" is the Easter Egger. simply put it's a mixed breed bird that lays colorful eggs, usually anywhere from blue to green or olive. the personality will depend largely on the breeds involved in it's creation, my own tend to be friendly but aloof and keep their distance from people for the most part. they mix well in the flock. again depending on the breeds that make up the individual birds, they can be anything from extremely good layers or dual purpose to a poor layer but excellent meatie. I have a few simply for their colorful eggs. my own have not shown any signs of being broody at all, but lay a nice large to extra large blue to blue green egg..

pictures of all of my own birds can be found on http://www.kmvfarm.com/gallery

as for care, I do not vaccinate any birds, preferring to keep birds that are naturally resistant to whatever comes along. I also do not use a medicated feed (ever) as I've found chicks show signs of vitamin deficiencies if fed it over any length of time. I do feed a fermented feed to everyone with pellets and scratch when necessary (due to time or weather constraints mostly) or as an occasional 'treat' to give them something to do.

I also feed animal protein to them 2-3 times a week as an added bonus - raw and chopped or ground depending on the source, usually frozen in burger-shaped patties for them to work on as it thaws. they also get any bones available. I also feed raw to the dog, so he gets most raw bones, the chickens tend to get the cooked ones put out of range of the dog because they tend to splinter more easily. I gave them a whole 4 pound sliced ham (on the bone) that had been freezer burned, and 18 adult birds devoured it down to bare bone within a matter of hours. (I think the cats helped some) so the belief by some that chickens are vegetarians is entirely false!

 

[wolfglen]

I've done the same thing for years, even when they get larger. I have a lot of my birds in raised pens with half inch mesh on the bottom. When I'm making a new garden, instead of roto tilling the garden and them fighting the weeds by the millions, I take the shovel fulls of sod and put them in the pens so the birds can pick them apart. The take the vast majority of insects, seeds, grass and roots out of the soil. then I put the soil back in the garden and let the birds go at again before I plant. I also have bottomless movable pens of 3 x 8 which I move around the garden, break the soil and let them pick/scratch it smooth for a day or so before planting. It really keeps the weeding at a minimum.

I'm not going to be able to do much gardening this spring, scheduled for back surgery in the next week or so.

Jack

 

[nicole63021]

Hi,
I'm new to raising chickens and BYC. We are starting our flock this spring. I have a million questions, and hope to work my way through this thread gathering answers. That said, I hope you don't mind one round of newbie questions. Right now, I'm concerned with raising chicks naturally. Is it wise to forgo vaccinations? Is it possible to get chicks from hatcheries without them? Same question for medicated feed. I want to be as natural as possible since our hens will be producing food for us, but I absolutely don't want to create suffering for any animal and a miserable experience for us. Vaccinated or not, are there certain breeds that are particularly hearty/disease-resistant? We're looking for birds that are good foragers but also able to tolerate confinement in the run/coop (we have severe predator activity). Grateful for any guidance you can give.

Welcome to BYC! I just got my chickens late this past summer. They are a TON of fun, but I learned the hard way just how many predators are here. I wanted to free range in my backyard, but lost one girl to a predator (cat or fox, it was a 2 month old chicken), she was my top bird at the time and her buddy went down hill quickly and passed a few days after. So what many do is a pen during the day, then supervised ranging when you are at home. I went with a mix of breeds just to see what I like best. I regret selling the SFH that I hatched, but it turned out for the best when I had problems with my city. The BR I have is the noisiest in my flock, and we don't think we will keep Rocks after she is gone. Our EE is the flightiest, and hardest to get back in the pen or coop when free time is over. She is also the most "arially gifted", so watching her when she is near the fences is important (we also clip the left wing primaries on all the birds). Our favorites, and breeds that we will always keep are the Salmon Faverolles, Cream Legbar, Brahmas, and Wyandotte. The 'dotte and BR were the first (and so far only) to lay, and both were laying 4-6 a week until the weather took a bad turn, now they are all finishing molt. The Brahmas and the SF are the friendliest in the group, if not underfoot especially when we are in the garden. CL is friendly and curious, but aloof, not really wanting to be picked up. She is also my best forager. Spring will tell who the best layers are for me. These are all 6 months old. We did non medicated feed, and had no issues with cocci, but ultimately that is up to you. Since we had heard of a few cases of Mareks in areas near us, we chose vaccination. All the girls did well with the record winter we just had, but in the summer I know the Brahmas will need to be watched closely. The weather in your area will be a big factor. Good luck in your flock selection!

 

[mlowen]

Welcome emalin and others!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...at-would-you-have-changed-or-done-differently

This is a great thread--gives you "hindsight" before you actually build anything. I love my coop/run, but I've learned some things so far this winter that I will change/tweak for next year. Like: putting a "ceiling" over the roost area (to decrease possible draft and blown-in snow,) re-using old plexiglass panels on the south side of the run instead of plastic (to increase sunshine and ability to watch them--I really miss that,) and running electricity (to keep water liquid all day.) I don't and won't use heat, insulation, or lights. It's just me and I can afford to let them take a laying vacation each winter; in hopes of them laying for more years.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Hi,
I'm new to raising chickens and BYC. We are starting our flock this spring. I have a million questions, and hope to work my way through this thread gathering answers. That said, I hope you don't mind one round of newbie questions. Right now, I'm concerned with raising chicks naturally. Is it wise to forgo vaccinations? Is it possible to get chicks from hatcheries without them? Same question for medicated feed. I want to be as natural as possible since our hens will be producing food for us, but I absolutely don't want to create suffering for any animal and a miserable experience for us. Vaccinated or not, are there certain breeds that are particularly hearty/disease-resistant? We're looking for birds that are good foragers but also able to tolerate confinement in the run/coop (we have severe predator activity). Grateful for any guidance you can give.

This may sound weird, or it may sound obvious and I'm not having an easy time putting it into words without sounding rude, but based on my own "learning curve" I'd humbly suggest in the nicest possible way and only since you ask ...

Figure out before you get the chicks what you want to feed them, figure out where you're going to get the food, and figure out reasonable quantities to buy it in and how you're going to store it. Prepared poultry rations are cheaper in bulk, but can't be stored for very long before they go stale or rancid. Whole grains will stay "fresh" for longer if they're stored properly.

Also figure out what does the phrase "as natural as possible" mean *to you* regarding the eggs/meat you intend to enjoy from your birds? If, for example, you want "organic" eggs/meat, you can't just switch the feed to organic at POL or a few weeks before harvest and consider it "organic."

Of course for personal consumption you can switch the feed around as you please. But don't fool yourself, and if you ever intend to share/sell the eggs/meat don't fool your customers.

There is a lot of advice out there regarding what to feed your birds, a lot of it comes from people with special-interest diets. Like gluten free, or GMO free or corn/soy free or feeding kids with ADHD or autism, or "entirely vegetarian fed." For example, there is a fair amount of shopping advice telling people to find poultry products that are "pastured," but expecting the word "pastured" to mean the birds have foraged 100% of their diet from day one. Look into this, and then consider realistically what your goals are and how to meet them. In my opinion, a lot of that information is ... impossible. Check it out.

If you're ever going to share eggs/meat with customers or friends, get very comfortable with your decisions regarding care and feeding of the birds and be prepared to answer their questions. I sell eggs to a buying group, and as the group got bigger they got a second source for eggs. This source advertised their eggs as "organic" and "corn free" and "soy free." Oopsies, those eggs aren't all of those things. The source just hadn't bothered to educate themselves before they entered the market, so inadvertently misled the customers. I'm pretty sure this happens a lot. Even if what people are hoping for from their poultry products is "impossible," this stuff can matter a LOT to people who might eat your eggs/meat, so it is good stuff to know and be ready to share.

If you have specific questions about vaccinations or medications, you could/should ask your local extension service. Our guy doesn't push medications like I expected he would, but he is a very good source of information about the considerations for our specific area.

The extension service is also an important source of information about local regulations regarding the selling of eggs and meat from small flocks. Each location has its own regulations, and even my Extension Service has a hard time explaining our regulations in a useful way ... but it is a good place to start and they might have a publication up on their website.

I agree with the others regarding figuring out how you're going to cull birds when it's necessary.

People will be more than happy to share their opinions about what you're doing. Brace yourself.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...eople-have-said-about-your-chickens-eggs-meat

But most of all, plan to enjoy the experience. Plan to tune into Chicken TV. One of the best things for your birds is your frequent and happy observation. Your birds will be proud to share all the coop gossip with you if you're there to listen. And pretty soon, every day is Easter! It never gets old.

 

[Overhill Flocks]

emalin, welcome to the world of chickens.

not knowing your location, everything everyone has said is good information... I will add a couple things I've learned.

build your coop and pen first. then you'll know how many birds it'll be capable of holding. a good estimate is 4 sq ft of coop splace per bird (2'x2' floor space) and 10 sq ft in a pen. depending on your location, IMO the coop can vary. here in sw Virginia it is rare to have a day when the birds won't come out of the coop, so I based my coop on roosting space, not floor space. 12" minimum roost space per bird (that is pretty much a standard anyways), but in colder climates, there may be days on end when they won't want to come out, so that is something to consider.

my own coop is an old, repurposed horse trailer with 4 6' roosts and I free range the birds living in there every day, once they're large enough to not be hawkbait...

I also suggest building ahead of time, because chicks grow a lot faster than people expect, while building can take a lot longer than you plan. LOL

another thing to consider... if you're wanting to breed (or might down the road) stick with one breed. otherwise you'll need multiple pens to keep each breed separated. my friends with only one primary breed have a huge advantage over me. LOL they can free range everyone every day and still have purebred birds, while my free rangers are all likely to produce mutts with an occasional purebred by pure chance.

you also asked about confinement and free ranging in the same breath. LOL penned and foraging are two different worlds IMO... my pens end up denuded quite rapidly so there is nothing to forage for, while some of my best foragers do NOT do well confined (and refuse to lay when they are).

as for breeds, are you looking for meat, eggs, show potential, etc? that might change what options are available... I have a number of different breeds, some are more for meat than eggs, tho they lay well enough, some are considered dual purpose, some are more ornamental but lay well too.. I refuse to keep a breed that is anything other than calm and easy going.

the breeds I have are:

Dorking - the 'original' meat/dual purpose breed with very fine textured meat and good flavor. they trace their roots back to ancient Rome and were brought to Britain by the roman conquerors. many breeds have roots in the Dorking. they are an 'ok' layer (3-5 cream to lightly tinted eggs a week) calm and laid back and very social with people, very good foragers and do ok with confinement as well. (they seem to like high ceilings and daytime roosts) they may be a bit broody at times though, and can be aggressive when on eggs or chicks, making them good mothers usually.

Wyandotte - another good dual purpose bird, with good flavor in the meat as well (but I prefer the Dorking for that) they are friendly and easy going but not as outgoing as the Dorking or SFH. they are also good layers (4-5 light brown eggs a week). They are also very good foragers and seem to tolerate confinement fairly well (they don't mind my shorter breeding pens). my 'dottes have gone broody, but not as often or consistently as some other breeds do.

Swedish Flower Hen (SFH) - this is a landrace breed from Sweden, having evolved over several hundred years to be excellent foragers. the breed is not recognized by the APA due to the wide variety of colors possible. these birds are exceptionally friendly and outgoing. often under foot. smaller than the dorking and 'dotte, I don't consider them a dual purpose breed, but as someone pointed out on another thread recently, every chicken is edible, you just get more meat on some than others.. They seem to be a pretty consistent layer of medium to large eggs (lightly tinted to light brown). as for confinement, some say they do well with large pens. my own started out free ranging and when pens refuse to lay for me... go figure. I have some growing out that will not free range until after they start laying, in the hopes that they will prove otherwise.

bantam Cochin - primarily considered an exhibition breed, they are also very friendly and easy going. hens lay fairly well (cream to light brown eggs) when they're not broody (which can be frequent!) and tend to give me a nice medium sized egg (some girls lay larger than others).

my last "breed" is the Easter Egger. simply put it's a mixed breed bird that lays colorful eggs, usually anywhere from blue to green or olive. the personality will depend largely on the breeds involved in it's creation, my own tend to be friendly but aloof and keep their distance from people for the most part. they mix well in the flock. again depending on the breeds that make up the individual birds, they can be anything from extremely good layers or dual purpose to a poor layer but excellent meatie. I have a few simply for their colorful eggs. my own have not shown any signs of being broody at all, but lay a nice large to extra large blue to blue green egg..

pictures of all of my own birds can be found on http://www.kmvfarm.com/gallery

as for care, I do not vaccinate any birds, preferring to keep birds that are naturally resistant to whatever comes along. I also do not use a medicated feed (ever) as I've found chicks show signs of vitamin deficiencies if fed it over any length of time. I do feed a fermented feed to everyone with pellets and scratch when necessary (due to time or weather constraints mostly) or as an occasional 'treat' to give them something to do.

I also feed animal protein to them 2-3 times a week as an added bonus - raw and chopped or ground depending on the source, usually frozen in burger-shaped patties for them to work on as it thaws. they also get any bones available. I also feed raw to the dog, so he gets most raw bones, the chickens tend to get the cooked ones put out of range of the dog because they tend to splinter more easily. I gave them a whole 4 pound sliced ham (on the bone) that had been freezer burned, and 18 adult birds devoured it down to bare bone within a matter of hours. (I think the cats helped some) so the belief by some that chickens are vegetarians is entirely false!

Wondering where your Dorking stock came from. I'm planning to add this breed to my flock this year. Feel free to PM me!

 

[RedRidge]

Wow. .. Can't believe no one has mentioned Rhode Island Reds or hatchery Reds.
I've had a lot of different breeds over the years and now have only RIR and Rhodebars. Yoy simply can't beat them for laying and carcass.

 

[aoxa]

Wow. .. Can't believe no one has mentioned Rhode Island Reds or hatchery Reds.
I've had a lot of different breeds over the years and now have only RIR and Rhodebars. Yoy simply can't beat them for laying and carcass.

My Barred Rocks outlay the RIRs I've had in the past. Also carcass was quite similar.

I found the Reds more bossy.

I haven't had Production Reds, so can't comment on them.

 

[CourtsCacklers]

I have silver laced wyandottes--- beautiful and so far seem to lay well-- hardly any comb-- but kind of skittish compared to my Rhode Island Reds-- my RIR (a larger comb) will submit even to my 18 month old son that can pick them up and my 5 year old has taken them down the slide with him (which I do NOT approve of). I love their temperment... they both seem to lay similarly for me.